Europa Universalis IV Developer diary 8 - With God on Your Side?

[Jia Xu]

I wonder how far the tech bonus goes for negative piety. At -100 piety, could the Ottomans keep up with westerners in technology? This is really an interesting mechanic. I wasn't really expecting any love for the Muslims at all, and this system is such a pleasant surprise.

 

[Colombo]

will be that religion relation bonus somehow balanced? So player wouldn't have -200 with everyone with different religion after few years of playing.

 

[katzen-kratzen]

Will protestants get special mechanics? What about Eastern religions like Buddhism or Hinduism?

 

[VoodooEconomist]

Seems like many good changes, though I find one of the changes for Islam is a bit lacking. Sure, there shouldn't be a big problem for a muslim ruler to have a heir, but historically there were often many who claimed to be heirs, thereby creating civil wars over who should rule after the monarchs death. So having a bonus in legitimacy isn't really the right way to go in my opinion, maybe a higher risk of pretender rebels would be more suitable.

I wouldn't exactly agree. While there were many pretenders in dynastic Muslim countries, most of those issues were resolved away from the battlefield and in court through bribery and assassination. The Ottomans were one of the longest ruling unbroken dynasty in the whole of history, and there weren't many battles fought over who'd be the sultan (mainly because at some point whoever the Janissaries supported got to rule... I wonder if the fact that in case of a weak ruler the Janissary Aga or the Grand Vezier played vital roles will be provided or at least moddable).

In case of the Mamluks on the other hand there were more open conflicts, but that had more to do with the organisation and nature of Mamluk society - they were many of them ex-slaves who grabbed the throne through their own amition. At any rate not something connected to religion but other game mechanics should definitely reflect.

 

[unmerged(63836)]

Looks interesting, but it's disappointing that conversion mechanic is unchanged and there's no religious minorities. It still looks very similar to EU3, with not much in terms of innovation (compared to quite revolutionary monarch point system). Fine, but not really exciting.

 

[Jia Xu]

Looks interesting, but it's disappointing that conversion mechanic is unchanged and there's no religious minorities. It still looks very similar to EU3, with not much in terms of innovation (compared to quite revolutionary monarch point system). Fine, but not really exciting.

If they radically changed everything, the game would feel alien to people who played EU3. Not everything needs to be turned upside-down and inside-out. Have you ever heard of a company called Koei? They make a strategy game series called "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" which has a small, but loyal western fanbase. Every time they make a new one, they seem to try to make an almost completely new game. The immediate consequence is that they also end up changing really good mechanics that should not have been changed just to make the new games fresh. The end result has been almost disastrous. Romance of the Three Kingdoms XII was released earlier this year to a terrible fan reaction because they made the game into something alien which no one asked for just because they wanted to do something new. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

(Although I still despise EU3's lacklustre religious tolerance system where Ming treats Sunni Muslims the same way it treats protestants.)

 

[afb]

Will Defender of the Faith be included? And how close will it be to the EU3 version? In several versions of EU3 I found that this effect was a major culprit in wacky conquests throughout the Mediterranean, as Spain and the Ottoman Empire would end up at war all the time.

 

[VoodooEconomist]

Will Defender of the Faith be included? And how close will it be to the EU3 version? In several versions of EU3 I found that this effect was a major culprit in wacky conquests throughout the Mediterranean, as Spain and the Ottoman Empire would end up at war all the time.

It's on the screenshot, so probably yes.

 

[esbenmf]

Which poet/songwriter next week ?

Blake and Dylan, then...

Esben

 

[VoodooEconomist]

Which poet/songwriter next week ?

Blake and Dylan, then...

Esben

Or maybe T.S.Eliot? Old Possum's Book of Practical Trade?

 

[unmerged(63836)]

If they radically changed everything, the game would feel alien to people who played EU3. Not everything needs to be turned upside-down and inside-out.

Yeah - familiarity is important, I didn't mean total scrapping of previous system and start from scratch, but more improvement over previous system. It would look good as something for an expansion, but for a new version of a game released 6 years prior it's quite disappointing. Monarch system, or new Trade system for example, seems vastly improved. I was hoping that other elements would get similar re-work.

 

[Johan]

Seems like many good changes, though I find one of the changes for Islam is a bit lacking. Sure, there shouldn't be a big problem for a muslim ruler to have a heir, but historically there were often many who claimed to be heirs, thereby creating civil wars over who should rule after the monarchs death. So having a bonus in legitimacy isn't really the right way to go in my opinion, maybe a higher risk of pretender rebels would be more suitable.

There are some bad things that can happen for them, if they have a regency council

 

[Johan]

will be that religion relation bonus somehow balanced? So player wouldn't have -200 with everyone with different religion after few years of playing.

That won't be a problem with our new relation code.

Will protestants get special mechanics? What about Eastern religions like Buddhism or Hinduism?

Nothing we can say yes/no to yet.. IMHO, protestants and reformed need no special mechanics as they have the economic bonus and the conversion fun.

I wonder how far the tech bonus goes for negative piety. At -100 piety, could the Ottomans keep up with westerners in technology? This is really an interesting mechanic. I wasn't really expecting any love for the Muslims at all, and this system is such a pleasant surprise.

Not entirely, but it takes you rather close.

 

[Fishman786]

Nice to see India mentioned in the intro section. Will there be Sikhism? Will Hinduism gradually become more 'radicalised' leading to the Hindu holy wars of the Marathas against Islam?

 

[Straigthtsilver]

Very nice changes overall! I honestly have no idea how I'm going to survive another year without EUIV.

However, I do have one question regarding the interaction between government type and religion. What happens if you're an Orthodox Theocracy? Is the Patriarch still separate, but very powerful, or do you as the player take the role of Patriarch (special events, decisions, etc)?

 

[unmerged(63836)]

Can we decide whether our religious policy is tolerant or not? Is choice between 'Innovative' and 'Religion' idea group covering this? Does such choice have strategic implications? As a multi-religious empire - is it optimal to follow tolerant policy, or would it be easy to convert everything relatively fast like in EU3? Can we revert such policy mid game?

 

[MasterOfGrey]

very very similar to eu3

Thanks for the quick reply. Cant say i wasnt hoping you say something about it being complicated and dynamic though, but as with EU3 mods'll step up to that so no worries.
DDs have all been looking great so far, stellar work.

Truth be told there was nothing wrong with the reformation in Eu3, it just proved to be a tad bland at times. It was still perfectly functional in its vanilla state...

 

[unmerged(59881)]

Nice to see that the religions get a bit of love.

Does the player have any possibility to directly influence/change the tolerance towards a specific religion? Say, my country is Catholic, and I want to tolerate Lutherans, but not Reformed Christians.

Also, (surprised that nobody jumped on that one so far) the diary mentions changes in the stability system. Any more infos you want to share, besides in that stability is not increased by investing money, Johan?

 

[Johan]

Also, (surprised that nobody jumped on that one so far) the diary mentions changes in the stability system. Any more infos you want to share, besides in that stability is not increased by investing money, Johan?

not yet

 

[Rommel22]

Is there anyway to get away from religion as time goes on? For example, if you want to build a secular state? Will this even be possible, or does it not fall in line with the game?