Best way to get Schleswig-Holstein as Prussia

[yonderTheGreat]

I apologize for such a (likely) easy topic, but I seem to have forgotten the standard procedure for Prussia acquiring Schleswig-Holstein, and thus creating the North German Confederation.

Holstein, which contains Kiel, begins the game in Denmark's Sphere. I've gained Holstein many times as Prussia and if I recall correctly, it only takes one or two minor wars.

But in the game I just started, I cannot, for the life of me, remember what I usually do. I've taken Schleswig (Aabenraa & Flensburg) from Denmark but Holstein (i.e. Kiel and Lauenburg) is still in their Sphere. It seems that I'd have to manufacture a "Remove From Sphere" CB against Denmark and then go to war over that. THEN I'd have to wait 5 years for the truce to expire and then have a Conquer CB against Holstein.

Obviously, btw, I want Kiel for myself. So... what am I missing/forgetting?

As always, thank you guys very, very much!

 

[yonderTheGreat]

Wait, I think I might remember/understand.

In order to form the NGC, you need everything that is North German in culture to be either owned by you or be in your SOI. One war with Denmark will fix the situation with Schleswig-Holstein. Once Victoria is crowned (usually just before 1840), I can Diplo-rush Hanover.

Then once I have both of those SOI'd, I'll get Holstein in the union, but I won't get Schleswig.

Is that correct?

 

[kurthakon]

To get Schleswig, you can just use a liberate CB on Denmark to release Schleswig as a nation. Schleswig will then automatically be in your sphere, and will be part of your union when you form NGF. Holstein is not sphered by Denmark unless Denmark is a great power (which rarely happens), and Holstein is instead a satelite of Denmark. You should therefore be able to sphere Holstein.

Like you said to form NGF you need to either own all North German-cores or have them sphered. You can't form NGF unless Schleswig is under your control, so you must either sphere Denmark (which won't get you Schleswig), take Schleswig for yourself or liberate Schleswig from Denmark. I prefer the last method as you risk less infamy and also get Schleswig for yourself when you form NGF.

 

[yonderTheGreat]

Ahh, so you need both parts of Schleswig-Holstein to become the NGF. Thank you.

Is there a standard "best" way to do it if you want all of Schleswig-Holstein as part of Germany?

 

[Thanik]

I think there is no"one and only true way" to do that.
For me usually sphering HOL + DEN from start is good idea, and after forming NGF/GER dowing DEN to gain core is enough

 

[Beagá]

No you don´t need to conquer. Only sphering Holstein AND Denmark is enough. However you won´t get Danish Schleswig after the NGF decision.

 

[kurthakon]

The best way IMO if you want the whole state is to liberate Schleswig from Denmark, because of the reasons I mentioned in my post. Holstein should be easy to sphere unless the United Kingdom interfer. You could of course just sphere Denmark, and wait until you research Nationalism & Imperialism when you get free CB for your cultural union so you can take Schleswig infamy-free. Though, I personally prefer to get Schleswig as early as possible, so I always liberate instead.

Edit:
@Thanik
Does NGF get cores on Schleswig when it forms?

 

[yonderTheGreat]

Awesome guys. Thank you so much.

Kurt, apologies, but I just shut down my gaming machine, so I can't look up whether or not Germany cores the two provinces just north of Kiel. I'm THINKING that they don't.

 

[kurthakon]

Awesome guys. Thank you so much.

Kurt, apologies, but I just shut down my gaming machine, so I can't look up whether or not Germany cores the two provinces just north of Kiel. I'm THINKING that they don't.

Yeah, that was my guess. So I think you have to wait until 1850 for Nationalism & Imperialism before you can get Schleswig then, as far as I know you don't get the Cultural Unification CB before then.

Edit: Also since you haven't mentioned it, I assume you already got Saxony sphered?

 

[Pkaem]

Just sphere off Saxony, sphere Holstein and Denmark and wait vor the queen victoria event in Hannover. Sphere Hannover and form NGF. Keep Denmark in your sphere until you invent Nationalism and Imperialism (UK usually trys to sphere it off) around 1850. Drop Denmark out of your sphere, bring relations below 100 and declare war for aquire core for 0 infamy.

 

[Arentak]

Free satellite is a cheap(bb) wargoal. It adds them to your sphere with +100 influence saved up. Not counting that extra 100, you save 200 influence by using war to take it. Also, to form NGF, you want 200 influence in Luxemburg(surely more then that, since competing with france there blows), 275 influence with saxony, and 175(if waiting for Victoria)/275(if unsphering hannover-not waiting) to get Hannover. That's a lot of influence, so saving 200 by skipping holstein and getting them via war is much better. 1st war, add 2 wargoals, 1 to free schlevsig, one to free satellite holstein

 

[DBtotalwar]

Holstein is not in Denmark's sphere, it can't be, Denmark isn't a GP. They are only allied/satellite.

 

[yonderTheGreat]

Holstein is not in Denmark's sphere, it can't be, Denmark isn't a GP. They are only allied/satellite.

Ahh, yes, very true. I misspoke.

Thanks guys, for all of this.

So, the checklist for NGF is S-H, Saxony, and then Hanover. Thank you so much.

 

[Kimberly]

Free satellite is a cheap(bb) wargoal. It adds them to your sphere with +100 influence saved up. Not counting that extra 100, you save 200 influence by using war to take it. Also, to form NGF, you want 200 influence in Luxemburg(surely more then that, since competing with france there blows), 275 influence with saxony, and 175(if waiting for Victoria)/275(if unsphering hannover-not waiting) to get Hannover. That's a lot of influence, so saving 200 by skipping holstein and getting them via war is much better. 1st war, add 2 wargoals, 1 to free schlevsig, one to free satellite holstein

Once you have Nationalism & Imperialism, you can declare war on the Netherlands with the "Release cultural kin" casus belli. It's basically a free "release puppet" casus belli for Luxemburg.

 

[grommile]

What I do in HoD:

Sphere Holstein, Denmark, Saxony, Hannover (usually in that order). Form NGF. Come N&I, jettison Denmark from my sphere and punch them in the face for their half of S-H.

 

[nestorius]

What I do in HoD:

Sphere Holstein, Denmark, Saxony, Hannover (usually in that order). Form NGF. Come N&I, jettison Denmark from my sphere and punch them in the face for their half of S-H.

Exactly that except sphere also Luxembourg before forming NGF. I usually keep Denmark in my sphere till later, ideally after Germany is formed (hopefully with Austria).

 

[Beagá]

Sometimes Scandinavia forms and becomes GP, and then a war for Schleswig becomes inevitable.

So if I sphere Luxembourg I get them in the NGF decision too?

 

[kurthakon]

So if I sphere Luxembourg I get them in the NGF decision too?

Yep, that's right. Since Luxembourg primary culture is North German, they become part of NGF if they are sphered.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

Once you have Nationalism & Imperialism, you can declare war on the Netherlands with the "Release cultural kin" casus belli. It's basically a free "release puppet" casus belli for Luxemburg.

That works on Denmark for Holstein too. Would in theory also work on Hanover if something really weird happens.

 

[DBtotalwar]

Yep, that's right. Since Luxembourg primary culture is North German, they become part of NGF if they are sphered.

What about for countries with a secondary culture? I'm just wondering this, because I added North German as an accepted culture in Belgium and I would like to know if they would be annexed as well...