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The Naturat

Second Lieutenant
85 Badges
Feb 21, 2014
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It seems that new EU will receive a detailed map with thousands of provinces to conquer and hold. That’s great news, however, as a Victoria 3 fan, I would be very happy if the dev team introduced automated warfare and conquest. In my opinion, it will be very time consuming and tedious to conquer all these new provinces. Too much of a micro-warfare at least for me.

Since the similar auto-management mechanics are introduced in Victoria 3 regarding the economy (as for some players Victoria 3 requires too much micro in this aspect), it would be great if Paradox provided the same level of freedom of how we play EU5.
 
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It's already confirmed it's not gonna happen in Vicky 3's style. I can imagine some automation like expanding EU4's rebel suppression and auto-siege functions, but outright automation of warfare won't be in the game.
 
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I would expect project Caesar to get similar automation to Imperator, where if I remember correctly, you can hand over stacks for the AI to control.
 
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It will not occur as in Vicky3.

But perhaps you can give army-stacks orders, like you do with vassels in EU4. With modifications such systems could go a long way and provide an adaptable compromise between total micro-mangement and total automation.

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We do know almost nothing about war. Perhaps army-composition could be a more vital, given that armies need good (and therefore production-methods / trade in order to provide those).
 
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No there will not be automated warfare and thank God for that, I understand if your a victoria 3 player that it would be appealing, but with all the ridiculous issues that vicy 3s fronts systems has had I would not wish that on any other pdx grand strategy game. If they do it like imperator that would be great, just being able to give vague ai commands to stacks works pretty dam well most of the time, but as for full automation heck no, I would venture to say 90% of EU players wouldn't want that, as the warfare micro is a big part of the game
 
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I wouldn't mind some semi-automated warfare. I struggle with fighting multiple wars/fronts at the same time in EU4 without using the pause button more than I like.

Also from a simulation stand point, the total control over your nation's armies is kinda weird. An important part of the history of warfare is that military leaders do not always do what the politicians order. Dealing with the fallout of your (in)competent generals ought to be part of grand strategy.

This youtube video critique by Sako pointed out that the most tangible control the player has in EU4 are the armies. As 'the spirit of the nation' we somehow have total control over our armies.

Now there are good gameplay reasons for this. From a game design perspective giving the player control over these outcomes gives a sense of agency and can prevent a lot of frustration. I haven't played Vicky 3 myself, but I understand that a large part of the player base there was unhappy with the lack of army control.

Anyway I suspect this part of the game has already largely been figured out. And I am fine either way, but any optional (semi-)automated warfare would be welcomed by me.
 
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It seems that new EU will receive a detailed map with thousands of provinces to conquer and hold. That’s great news, however, as a Victoria 3 fan, I would be very happy if the dev team introduced automated warfare and conquest. In my opinion, it will be very time consuming and tedious to conquer all these new provinces. Too much of a micro-warfare at least for me.

Since the similar auto-management mechanics are introduced in Victoria 3 regarding the economy (as for some players Victoria 3 requires too much micro in this aspect), it would be great if Paradox provided the same level of freedom of how we play EU5.
You seem to not make a difference between location and province, where several lication are a province and that's locations we will have much more, not provinces I believe

And I doubt we will have to carpet siege every location, it can work on a per province basis where you only need to control province capital/fortress to capture every location of a province

That's said, some automation can be good, especially when you have multiple fronts to take care of
 
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I wouldn't mind some semi-automated warfare. I struggle with fighting multiple wars/fronts at the same time in EU4 without using the pause button more than I like.

Also from a simulation stand point, the total control over your nation's armies is kinda weird. An important part of the history of warfare is that military leaders do not always do what the politicians order. Dealing with the fallout of your (in)competent generals ought to be part of grand strategy.

This youtube video critique by Sako pointed out that the most tangible control the player has in EU4 are the armies. As 'the spirit of the nation' we somehow have total control over our armies.

Now there are good gameplay reasons for this. From a game design perspective giving the player control over these outcomes gives a sense of agency and can prevent a lot of frustration. I haven't played Vicky 3 myself, but I understand that a large part of the player base there was unhappy with the lack of army control.

Anyway I suspect this part of the game has already largely been figured out. And I am fine either way, but any optional (semi-)automated warfare would be welcomed by me.
As a Vic3 player, I think the primary issues I have with the game's warfare are less to do with the fact that it's not micromanaged and more to do with the fact that the actual behaviour of the fronts in warfare has been... Suspect, at best, from the beginning of the game's dev cycle. It's certainly improved, but it's still not good.

I think, however, that people have a habit of massively overlooking the problems with stack based combat in other PDX games as a result of this. The way the AI will run away even in completely ridiculous situations or the way that warfare tends to turn into siege races and you don't actually fight the enemy tends to go ignored when people complain about their lack of agency in Vic3.
 
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What they really need to do is balance the war score system so that you don't always need to have a total war in like 1520. At least in the beginning of the game. The less you need to carpet siege, the less tedious it is to manage your stacks and the less need for automation.

Also, if they do it how it works in CK3, where conquering the main city/castle takes the whole province that would also help a lot.
 
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It's already confirmed it's not gonna happen in Vicky 3's style. I can imagine some automation like expanding EU4's rebel suppression and auto-siege functions, but outright automation of warfare won't be in the game.

what kinda automation do you suggest? do you have examples?

I would expect project Caesar to get similar automation to Imperator, where if I remember correctly, you can hand over stacks for the AI to control.

It will not occur as in Vicky3.

But perhaps you can give army-stacks orders, like you do with vassels in EU4. With modifications such systems could go a long way and provide an adaptable compromise between total micro-mangement and total automation.

--------------------------------------

We do know almost nothing about war. Perhaps army-composition could be a more vital, given that armies need good (and therefore production-methods / trade in order to provide those).

We have different preferences, therefore, optional automation IMO would be the best. If you like the micro, you do not have to click the “automate“ button, however, if not, go for it.

I am also aware that the approach of a direct control over units/ armies is prevailing in EU series and we can not count on Victoria/HoI frontlines style thus, solution implemented in Imperator would be perfect compromise. Just please do not force me to give orders to dozens of armies in late game or loop-chase the low morale armies in the map with itsy-bitsy provinces.

You seem to not make a difference between location and province, where several lication are a province and that's locations we will have much more, not provinces I believe

And I doubt we will have to carpet siege every location, it can work on a per province basis where you only need to control province capital/fortress to capture every location of a province

That's said, some automation can be good, especially when you have multiple fronts to take care of

What they really need to do is balance the war score system so that you don't always need to have a total war in like 1520. At least in the beginning of the game. The less you need to carpet siege, the less tedious it is to manage your stacks and the less need for automation.

Also, if they do it how it works in CK3, where conquering the main city/castle takes the whole province that would also help a lot.

Yes, capital siege system or different ways to calculate the warscore are always welcomed and could help to reduce micro.

Get out.

Skill issue?

Nah. More like 99.99999%.

Why so much hate? I could also say ’get out’ to all who are for automated trade or automated production methods in Victoria 3 but appealing more players is great for the game in terms of its longevity which IMO is always crucial if we all want good and polished product.

Please note that subjective ’arguments’ used in Victoria 3 against micro in economy could be also used in EU5 against micro in warfare and below is a brief list of examples:
1. Micro in warfare is tedious and consequently, boring. Totally subjective argument but still present in the discussion on micro in Victoria 3.
2. PDX games are grand strategy games so, controlling or overseeing tiny elements required to run a country (in this case, army) is suitable for a RTS genre (e.g. Command and Conquer series).
3. You are a ‘spirit of a country‘ thus, you should make only general and most crucial decision without direct impact on the country (in terms of warfare, such as selecting only general directions for an attack or choosing generals with specific, suited to you stats, or with specific approach to combat, like more offensive or defensive combat style).
4. COOKIE CLICKER etc. No comments.
 
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It's already confirmed it's not gonna happen in Vicky 3's style. I can imagine some automation like expanding EU4's rebel suppression and auto-siege functions, but outright automation of warfare won't be in the game.
Vicky 3 is not automation, its a different system where you manually assign troops to front

Automatic assignation of troops to front would be automation
 
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Vicky 3 is not automation, its a different system where you manually assign troops to front

Automatic assignation of troops to front would be automation
Then Vicky 3 is automation, because I constantly have troops reassign to other fronts :p Joking an tomayto-tomahtos aside, it's a system that requires very little manual input and offers very little agency in how wars are conducted. At that point, whether it also assigns your armies or leaves that part to you is a meaningless distinction.
 
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