About India

[Austregisel]

By what I realized it seems that the Indian kingdoms can raise few troops compared to the HRE, as the Indian population is much larger than many European kingdoms together because they raise so few troops, since they could plausibly rise to more than 100 a thousand troops, is it just to balance the game and not let the Indians expand wildly?
like the Battle of Tarain, in 1191 it had almost 150 thousand soldiers fighting. This is only in a battle in a gigantic sub continent and very, very overpopulated.

 

[Zoomun]

There aren't enough counties in India. India doesn't have nearly enough counties to represent the population that they have. It is so easy to counquer India because of their much lower troop count. Every game there are empires that stretch over most of India and still don't have a chance against the other biggest empires in the world. Someone controlling most of India could be almost unstoppable but they can't even compete with the Byzantines.

 

[Semigall]

Pretty sure this can be modded one way or another.

 

[Arsonik]

Pretty sure this can be modded one way or another.

Based on what exactly? I don't see a way to "fix" this with mods other than adding new provinces.

 

[Semigall]

Based on what exactly? I don't see a way to "fix" this with mods other than adding new provinces.

No, much simpler - bonuses, levy multipliers. You can just set them as per region, because India is one region. And then those little green multipliers will apply to every single Indian province.

 

[Arsonik]

No, much simpler - bonuses, levy multipliers. You can just set them as per region, because India is one region. And then those little green multipliers will apply to every single Indian province.

Well that's a great suggestion! You should have just said that in your previous reply.

 

[jwalche]

Then there should some mechanics to address why India could not project it's troops outside of the subcontinent. Their large army was weaker than European counterpart and didn't have ship or organization tech to cross the mountains.

 

[Mods]

Then there should some mechanics to address why India could not project it's troops outside of the subcontinent. Their large army was weaker than European counterpart and didn't have ship or organization tech to cross the mountains.

What? That's complete nonsense, especially in this game's time-period where europe was the backwater of the world. "Europe" (for some reason you're equating entire continents) didn't even have professional armies, and the only European power of the time that did was crushed by the Turks

 

[BeyondExpectation]

Rich areas have a tendency in CK2 to blob over poor areas due to the simplistic way money works in game (see my sig) and if India were historically populated, the Indus valley alone would normally conquor Afghanistan and much of Persia, as it still does sometimes. An Empire covering the Indo-Gangetic plain would be almost invincible and last the entire rest of the game in some form or other baring player intervention, despite the historically sort-lived nature of Indian empires for reasons I do not know.

 

[TheDungen]

Actually Europe's population doesn't fall behind India until the black death and even more so the thirty years war.

What? That's complete nonsense, especially in this game's time-period where europe was the backwater of the world. "Europe" (for some reason you're equating entire continents) didn't even have professional armies, and the only European power of the time that did was crushed by the Turks

Actually Europe the backwater ended with the ascension of Charlemagne. In the ck2 period it's rapidly catching up, and population wise it's actually in the same ballpark as india. And India is far from population dense all over, yeah the ganges river basin is populated but more arid region were very sparsely inhabited in this era.

 

[Rags17]

Pretty sure this can be modded one way or another.

Based on what exactly? I don't see a way to "fix" this with mods other than adding new provinces.

No, much simpler - bonuses, levy multipliers. You can just set them as per region, because India is one region. And then those little green multipliers will apply to every single Indian province.

This !

I made this suggestion in a thread about China and even did a bit of planning on how to implement it. Since most of the population disparity can be explained by there simply being more "hydraulic cultures" in the east all that would be needed would be to add say four new buildings to Castles, Cities and Temples - Drainage Ditches, Dykes, Canal Network and Grand Canal. These would be limited to traditional floodplain areas, eg the Ganges, Indus, Tigris/Euphrates and Nile and would add a MASSIVE amount of ultra cheap and ultra crap levies, say 1-4,000 Light Infantry with a -30% morale malus, PLUS a massive tax income say +5 to +20 pcm each based on level.

Against this would be a series of events that called upon the player to pay to keep the canals clear, say 250-1000 gold per pop, say once every 5-10 years on average. If the maintenance wasn't kept up then the relevant improvement would "silt up" and disappear, while at the same time creating a massive general opinion penalty (didn't maintain the realm) AND a truly frightening peasant uprising, say 10,000 troops per level of improvement.

The improvements could also be limited to certain government types (eg Feudal, Chinese Imperial) and maybe also certain cultures so that Kirghiz nomads couldn't just waltz into Baghdad and start running the waterways, at least until they settled down.

I'm actually going to try testing this out and see if it works. The combination of truly massive crap morale armies plus periodic rebellions and societal collapse should hopefully be sufficient to see great nations arise that are literally too big to project beyond their borders (how do you move 90,000 -30% morale LI through the desert ?) while also requiring a massive reserve of cash to cover the expected ongoing waterway maintenance costs.