First UK Co-operative AAR!

El Pip said:

I feel sorry for this Sir Gyles fellow, whoever he is. The Air Industry rep Sir Geedes however is still recovering from the experience.

Well done Durry, Sir Cyril has got both names AND the problem with the new naval bomber wrong. That's some impressive incorrectness.

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OOC: Gyles, Geedes, whatever!

Oh, and Dury with one 'r' please if we're going to nit pick our whole lives...

28 January 1938
Cabinet Room

Sometimes, Neville amased even himself!

His day had started with the armed forces badgering him about new items for their budgets and ended with some wonderful business, for the government, the economy and for British Industry.

Sir Cyril had announced that the formation of the 8th Army command group had been completed and that it was currently loading upon the 2nd Transport Flotilla at Portsmouth, bound for Alexandria. The plan had been for the army to then finally make its decision between the motorised infantry divisions they had spent two years testing, or divisions made up of tanks and other vehicles, called an Armoured Division. Sir Cyril had announced that the army planned to raise six new Motorised Infantry Divisions over the next 15 months and presented the required budget for the them. No sooner had Neville seen the figure of 11.9 IC than he had his idea.

At 11.9 IC the Motorised Divisions were cheaper by 5-6 IC than the Armoured units. This saving, rather than remaining in supplies as intended actually meant that Neville could fund the creation of the Close Support Aircraft units, a new type of bomber that had proved effective in Spain. This was just the sort of big ticket item that would stimulate the British air industry and get the armed forces of his back for a while. After doing the sums he calculated that the formation of six Wings of these light bombers would cost 5.1 IC and should be ready early in 1940.

It was win win. The Navy was still crowing about their new Aircraft, and now the Army and the RAF would be off his back too. Finally he could get down to some serious economic work.

OOC: Organization and rationality in the Middle East? Whoda thunk it...

this seems to be a new dawn for the british armed forces!

what aircraft did we go for the CAS bomber?

OOC: Oh sh*t, don't start that again!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

ooc: so is there going to be another cabinet brawl over this?
*dons full plate armour before entering the cabinet room*

OOC: I think Wolfey wanted the Skua...though the Hurri IIc would be an ok alternate.

I know that just about everyone...except maybe Doctrine Boy wanted to avoid the Battle at all costs.

The modified Skua came about to explain away the French CAS blue-print (which was for the triple engined MB.200). Clearly that couldn't become the Battle, it was too different, so we went with a modified version of an existing bomber.

Nothing wrong with the Battle for what it was, a first generation monoplane bomber. For something designed in the early 30s it was about average. It's only problem was being made to fight in 1940 when it was horribly obsolete.

That said it was not a design beyond redemption; Señor Draco's (fictional) Battle MkIII from "For King And Country" looks quite tasty. Lose a crew man, fit an updated Merlin and tweak the aerodynamics. Not a bad little plane.

And Durrrrrrrry, tell Nev that his priorities are all wrong. Bean-counting is a way to get things done, not an end to itself.

It'd explain the blueprint and I remember Wolfey saying that he thought the Skua would do well. Though historically that wasn't the case certainly with the Dauntless.

The biggest problem with the Battle Mk III is exactly that it's fiction. But the biggest problem with the Battle in general was the advancement of aviation technology in the 30s. Had there been a suitable replacement the Battle probably would have in a training role...but that's hindsight.

El Pip said:

And Durrrrrrrry, tell Nev that his priorities are all wrong. Bean-counting is a way to get things done, not an end to itself.

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OOC: I told him but he just looked at me blankly...

If we are going with a land version of the Skua... any idea what you want to call this contraption? Do we want Addy to don his red dresss again?

No Pippy should...or Wolfey since it's his aircraft.

De-navalized Skua....Skua's probably fine as it is.

The regional tactical commander took his place as the meeting was just getting started. All around he smelt the aroma of many different tobaccos; woodbine, old holburn, even the strange waft of something he once dared try in Bangalore in the twenties coming from the fleet air arm group.
Sir Cyril nodded for the tactical commander to start and with that the commander began.

“ Gentleman I would like to give a quick report into the new bomber we are currently researching – the Vickers Wellington.”

“ You may be aware of a scientist by the name of Barnes Wallis – he previously pioneered airship technology but over the past few years has been devoting his time to more useful work mainly for bomber command”



Barnes Neville Wallis – the man who helped Vickers Armstrong to develop the Wellington.


“ His previous work on the design of airships has been of enormous use - his geodetic construction of aircraft frames has looked extremely promising on the wellsely bomber. It is essentially where the fuselage is made of a basket weave of light metal covered with irish linen.”

“Now we are going for a replacement medium sized bomber, improvements have been made to the construction and effectiveness of this design.
This means the aircraft, according to our tests anyway, can take a lot more damage and will with some more work be able to carry a far heavier load than our current hampdens, somewhere in the region of 4500 pounds and a range of around 2500 kms.”

“Plus the new prototype, the mark 1 – has the added conveniance of more interior space with the taller fuselage. That means we can increase the defensive armament to three powered gun turrets and a retractable ventral turret under the bomber.”



The wellington would become affectionately known as the ‘wimpy’

“ In conclusion gentleman, in 6 months time the RAF bomber command will be a far more powerful entity with greater hitting power.
All in all this is a very exciting time for us as tactical and strategic options are opened as we procure more of this fine aircraft in the future”

Admiral Lyons looked at some of the Fleet Air Arm's senior commanders and shook his head, "I'm afraid Lord Wolfe's influence in tobacco has rubbed off on some of the senior commanders." He said primarily to himself. He was actually the senior officer here since Sir Thomas was 'forced' by his wife to go on a two week holiday after the naval bomber debacle.

Lyons got the speaker's attention, "What powerplant do you plan on using for the Wellington? I understand that protoypes have been tested with various marks of the Pegasus, Merlin and relatively early versions of the Hercules engines."

Sir Cyril remained calm but snuck a look at the water cannon in the corner. It's always the engines that start it...

OOC: Honestly I don't care, but those three (I'm discounting Twin Wasp...to avoid yet another historical Pippy rant ) engines were used extensively with the Wellington.

Besides the FAA could go with twins for their next naval bomber.

Pippy: I'm not sure if the Hercules is quite plausable, though the RN did request Bristol to develop a radial engine with approximately the power of the Centaurus in 1937 or extremely late 36. What do you think?

Adaml83 said:

OOC: Honestly I don't care, but those three (I'm discounting Twin Wasp...to avoid yet another historical Pippy rant ) engines were used extensively with the Wellington.

Besides the FAA could go with twins for their next naval bomber.

Pippy: I'm not sure if the Hercules is quite plausable, though the RN did request Bristol to develop a radial engine with approximately the power of the Centaurus in 1937 or extremely late 36. What do you think?

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As you well know the only poor unfortunate Wellingtons that were saddled with the Twin Wasps were the ones paid for by Polish Govt in exile for their forces. And they were cheap skates who skimped on the specs.

So less of that you, or I'll insist we revive the tradition of you in your dress for "Name that plane"

Assuming we're not going Beaufrort/Albacore that means we can skip the Taurus engine completely. Hence Bristol can transfer a great deal of effort to the Centaurus so it's not impossible for it to be ready, especially given the earlier development start you mentioned.

The main problem however is the "single model" approach HOI2 takes, planes can't improve over time they just get replaced in one fell swoop. Given where the Wellington sits in the timeline/model hierarchy the Pegasus is probably 'good enough' for it to fufill those specs.

" You are correct admiral, tests are currently underway with many engines and their variants. However in my knowledge the initial tests have been mainly conducted with 2 bristol pegasus mk X radial piston engines. "

The tactical commander noted other aircraft chiefs shaking their head at the use of such an old engine.

" We must remember that we are still in the development stage here, and brisol have alluded to the possibilities of using their mark XVIII engine. Giving us more power if fitted successfully. "

" Just a few more inquiries gentleman; I believe we need an expansion in our engine building capacity, can't the government fund an expansion scheme in the midlands or bristol area to aid us?
Maybe the industrial representative would be able to give an overview on the current supply situation for engines as a whole? "

OOC: I propose building 1 factory in the engine building areas to simulate a commitment to greater engine production? Just an idea i'm throwing out there!

OOC: if it helps el pip, while i'm alive i will never allow the bristol buckingham to be our improved tactical bomber.
I personally have no problem with going for 2 designs in the future for any aircraft slot...

OOC: Better contact Rolls-Royce then Funky...just a sneaking suspicion we'll want more Merlins.

Pippy the Twin Wasp, especially when compared to something like the Double Wasp is decidedly average, which if we did use American engines for any other reason besides numbers, I'd choose the Double Wasp (2000 hp in 1939? Yes please).

Yeah Merlin-engined Wellingtons were Mk IIs. If anything I'd remove using just a single type for a generation of planes (if there's an option) and add various "minor" upgrades so you'll see various models in a timespan.

BTW the only way that Dury will get me in that dress is if the industrial representative (Pippy) and the branch seeking the new equipment is also in a dress.

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"I'm not sure if we necessarily need to build a new factory for engine building primarily because I don't think there's room in the budget right now. I do think we can increase the efficiency of the various engine manufacturers."

He looked quickly through his information, "From our end we might as well tell Bristol to end work on the Taurus engine which should allow them to concentrate on the Hercules and development of the Centaurus engines. I'm not sure what you'll want for inline development from Rolls-Royce, but we have Napier developing the Sabre engine for FAA use."

For Shame sir! This is a British AAR and thus must keep to traditions. Such as the tradition that it is Addy, and Addy alone, who wears the dress in this grouping.

Lets just keep things simple (I know that will keep Durry happy, although he's probably still crying into his weak flat lager after last weekend )

This Wellington has Pegasus engines, it fits the stats/age better. When the next level of TACs are researched we can either 'upgrade' to Centaurus or choose something different if there's a parallel/better project we prefer.