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Ah, I hadn't seen it mentioned, so I thought it wasn't happening. Won't they do it across gateless jumps, or is it just the lack of jump drives in the designs they're using that made you wait to have gates before placing the contracts? The civilian shippers in my game seem to much prefer the jump-driveless freighter design, but I assumed they saw no reason for picking the other one given the lack of extra-solar colonies.

And I didn't know they could misplace the orders, how does that come about?
 
GaiusC said:
As far as I can see, PCDs have a limited amount of ammo at their disposal. Basically, what they're designed to store, I guess. Of course, that could still means something like thousand anti-missile missiles :D

Now, after our last visit, I think we should really set the situation straight: the Prix have been beaten and we are, basically, sieging the planet. And soon, we'll destroy its last defenses, and our teams will be able to scout it and dig up everything useful on its surface.

The other Prix-infested system is another issue, of course. A cleansing is long overdue, but that's not for today.
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Agreed. I expect that we will find a very valuable outpost on the planet, after we sterilize it. The two outposts that we've explored so far were both the most useless kind (Destroyed Outpost) and even so, we found a Research Lab and a new tech, as well as lesser loot. I expect to find a much better haul on the Prix planet... not to mention ten more wrecks (seven in orbit around the planet plus the three Prix ships/PDCs that we intend to kill).

How does this look for a Bombardment vessel?

Culverin - Copy class Bombardment Cruiser 14,000 tons 907 Crew 2237.8 BP TCS 280 TH 570 EM 360
4071 km/s Armour 3-51 Shields 12-300 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 13 PPV 105.6
Annual Failure Rate: 120% IFR: 1.7% Maint Capacity 1299 MSP Max Repair 80 MSP Est Time: 4.69 Years
Magazine 640

Ion Engine E7 (19) Power 60 Fuel Use 70% Signature 30 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres Range 73.5 billion km (208 days at full power)
Gamma R300/16 Shields (6) Total Fuel Cost 96 Litres per day

Size 8 Missile Launcher (33% Reduction) (40) Missile Size 8 Rate of Fire 1600
Missile Fire Control FC177-R83 (1) Range 177.1m km Resolution 83

Active Search Sensor MR51-R100 (70%) (1) GPS 6400 Range 51.2m km Resolution 100

ECCM-4 (1) This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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I will be mounting the Search Sensor in a Battle-Management ship, not in a Monitor.
 
Gwalcmai said:
Ah, I hadn't seen it mentioned, so I thought it wasn't happening. Won't they do it across gateless jumps, or is it just the lack of jump drives in the designs they're using that made you wait to have gates before placing the contracts? The civilian shippers in my game seem to much prefer the jump-driveless freighter design, but I assumed they saw no reason for picking the other one given the lack of extra-solar colonies.

And I didn't know they could misplace the orders, how does that come about?
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The current Civ designs have no jump drives, correct.

I doubt that the civs would really "lose" my order, but the automated mines are vital, we've got lots of Freighters by now (closing in on twenty) and I want to keep that aspect of the build-up under my own supervision.
 
Looks like a good design. What will the missiles look like? It would be great if they could be MIRVed, since with only one fire control we're counting on saturating their defences missile-for-missile, if we haven't already depleted them.
 
Capt. Kiwi said:
Looks like a good design. What will the missiles look like? It would be great if they could be MIRVed, since with only one fire control we're counting on saturating their defences missile-for-missile, if we haven't already depleted them.
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We have choices.

With a size-8 missile, we could get a 100 m-km range and a strength-9 boom with 17,800 kps (about 25% hit vs 10,000 kps target).

Or we could MIRV it, and use several smaller warheads, or a much slower missile with two size-9 warheads... if that's even possible. MIRVs need engines for the final stage, which adds parasitic weight to the first stage, of course.
 
blue emu said:
We have choices.

With a size-8 missile, we could get a 100 m-km range and a strength-9 boom with 17,800 kps (about 25% hit vs 10,000 kps target).

Or we could MIRV it, and use several smaller warheads, or a much slower missile with two size-9 warheads... if that's even possible. MIRVs need engines for the final stage, which adds parasitic weight to the first stage, of course.
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It depends what we want to do with it, really. Checking back, the Prix destroyed our drone when it was 3 m-km out. If we were trying to fire through an active PD shield, at 20000 kps we'd be fired at 30 times, which would probably destroy any amount of missiles we fired. So to brute force our way through we'd need both speed and numbers (or decoys), suggesting many small, fast sub-munitions.

If we plan to empty their magazines first, it really doesn't matter. The bigger the better, in that case.
 
The size-4 Homing missile isn't all that satisfactory, but it allows the entire fleet to join the bombardment by firing at the way-point and letting the missile home in from there:

Missile Size: 4 MSP (0.2 HS) Warhead: 4 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 14500 km/s Endurance: 118 minutes Range: 102.5m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.4 Resolution: 1 Maximum Range: 4,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 2.42
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 174% 3k km/s 48% 5k km/s 34.8% 10k km/s 17.4%
Materials Required: 1x Tritanium 0.4x Uridium 0.876x Gallicite Fuel x4000
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... and the size-8 bombardment missile:

Missile Size: 8 MSP (0.4 HS) Warhead: 9 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 14
Speed: 17800 km/s Endurance: 96 minutes Range: 102.8m km
Cost Per Missile: 4.725
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 249.2% 3k km/s 70% 5k km/s 49.8% 10k km/s 24.9%
Materials Required: 2.25x Tritanium 2.875x Gallicite Fuel x8000
Click to expand...
 
Capt. Kiwi said:
It depends what we want to do with it, really. Checking back, the Prix destroyed our drone when it was 3 m-km out. If we were trying to fire through an active PD shield, at 20000 kps we'd be fired at 30 times, which would probably destroy any amount of missiles we fired. So to brute force our way through we'd need both speed and numbers (or decoys), suggesting many small, fast sub-munitions.

If we plan to empty their magazines first, it really doesn't matter. The bigger the better, in that case.
Click to expand...

Yah... it would have to separate at least four m-km out, though, and have a big enough engine and enough fuel to run in. Add a homing head and that doesn't leave much room for a bang, in a size-1 sub-munition. Even then, a size-8 missile could only carry two of them.

Can you try your hand at designing an effective 100 m-km size-8 MIRV with a 4+ m-km separation distance?
 
Hang on... I had the active homing sensor set wrong. Try this instead:

Missile Size: 4 MSP (0.2 HS) Warhead: 4 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 13
Speed: 20700 km/s Endurance: 82 minutes Range: 101.6m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.024 Resolution: 100 Maximum Range: 24,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 2.479
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 269.1% 3k km/s 78% 5k km/s 53.8% 10k km/s 26.9%
Materials Required: 1x Tritanium 0.024x Uridium 1.382x Gallicite Fuel x3950
Click to expand...
 
If you tell me your relevant tech I could. Would it need to be homing, since it's being fired from the bombardment ship which has adequate FC range, and since we should have active sensor coverage?

Edit: That looks better for our support fire missile.
 
Capt. Kiwi said:
If you tell me your relevant tech I could. Would it need to be homing, since it's being fired from the bombardment ship which has adequate FC range, and since we should have active sensor coverage?

Edit: That looks better for our support fire missile.
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Ion tech engines (engine power 3 per MSP), x5 warhead multiplier, agility 48 per MSP, fuel efficiency 0.7, active sensor strength 0.8 per MSP.

The Monitor's missiles (size-8) would not require active homing since it has the alien FC, but the rest of the fleet (which has size-1 and size-4 launchers) would require it.
 
How's this for a warhead (0/8/1.17/0.03/0):

Missile Size: 2 MSP (0.1 HS) Warhead: 4 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 35100 km/s Endurance: 2 minutes Range: 3.9m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.17
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 351% 3k km/s 110% 5k km/s 70.2% 10k km/s 35.1%
Materials Required: 1x Tritanium 0.92x Gallicite Fuel x75

Development Cost for Project: 217RP
Click to expand...

And this for the whole package (0/1/3/0):

Missile Size: 8 MSP (0.4 HS) Warhead: 0 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 7500 km/s Endurance: 214 minutes Range: 96.4m km
Cost Per Missile: 5.34
Second Stage: Size 2 Anti-ship Missile x2
Second Stage Separation Range: 3,800,000 km
Overall Endurance: 4 hours Overall Range: 100.3m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 75% 3k km/s 20% 5k km/s 15% 10k km/s 7.5%
Materials Required: 2x Tritanium 2.59x Gallicite Fuel x7500

Development Cost for Project: 534RP
Click to expand...

Agility is unimportant for hitting sitting targets, and speed is unimportant for the shuttle stage.
 
As long as they can't pick up a size-8 target any further than they can detect a size-1 target... otherwise, they'll pick them off just before separation.

I just got caught in an endless loop of errors THREE TIMES while trying to swap the new Fighters onto the Carriers... :mad: ... I had to kill the program each time with the Task Manager to get out of the error cascade. I think it was caused by the ' mark in the auto-named squadron Lindberg's Own, because when I removed that ' mark, the error cascade stopped occurring. Grrrr...
 
blue emu said:
As long as they can't pick up a size-8 target any further than they can detect a size-1 target... otherwise, they'll pick them off just before separation.

I just got caught in an endless loop of errors THREE TIMES while trying to swap the new Fighters onto the Carriers... :mad: ... I had to kill the program each time with the Task Manager to get out of the error cascade. I think it was caused by the ' mark in the auto-named squadron Lindberg's Own, because when I removed that ' mark, the error cascade stopped occurring. Grrrr...
Click to expand...

Size 8 targets can be picked up slightly further away, size 6 is the cut off point - everything bigger than that has a detection distance scaled by size. Ideally you'd want the warheads to separate after the enemy had fired PD missiles, but before the PD missiles had impacted. I'd be intrigued to know what would happen if they'd targeted something that is no olnger there ;):D

Your drone was detected at 3.5 m k-m, and destroyed at just under 3. I don't think you posted the range which your homing missiles were intercepted at, but I had assumed there were a couple of hundred thousand kms to play with. If need be, you can sacrifice a little speed for range.
 
Capt. Kiwi said:
Size 8 targets can be picked up slightly further away, size 6 is the cut off point - everything bigger than that has a detection distance scaled by size. Ideally you'd want the warheads to separate after the enemy had fired PD missiles, but before the PD missiles had impacted. I'd be intrigued to know what would happen if they'd targeted something that is no olnger there ;):D

Your drone was detected at 3.5 m k-m, and destroyed at just under 3. I don't think you posted the range which your homing missiles were intercepted at, but I had assumed there were a couple of hundred thousand kms to play with. If need be, you can sacrifice a little speed for range.
Click to expand...

We might as well build some of your design, and some of mine as well... new missile designs only take a month or less to research, so it's no big deal making multiple types.

For the fourth time this summer, the TKFS Geology team has announced a new mineral find.., this time, an additional 100,000 tons of Corbamite on that rich new mining world that we are developing in the Procyon system.
 
blue emu said:
We might as well build some of your design, and some of mine as well... new missile designs only take a month or less to research, so it's no big deal making multiple types.

For the fourth time this summer, the TKFS Geology team has announced a new mineral find.., this time, an additional 100,000 tons of Corbamite on that rich new mining world that we are developing in the Procyon system.
Click to expand...

This is probably a good opportunity for live fire exercises, actually. We're not expecting serious opposition, yet we have a PD sytem to beat, so it will give us a good feel for the merits of different weapon systems.

Here's an alternative to two size 2 warheads if you want a bigger punch but still to have high speed (1.8/2.14/0.06):

Missile Size: 4 MSP (0.2 HS) Warhead: 9 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 32100 km/s Endurance: 2 minutes Range: 3.9m km
Cost Per Missile: 4.39
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 321% 3k km/s 100% 5k km/s 64.2% 10k km/s 32.1%
Materials Required: 2.25x Tritanium 1.89x Gallicite Fuel x150

Development Cost for Project: 439RP
Click to expand...

Personally I think it would be too much of a compromise without excelling at anything, but it's another option.
 
August 26th 2036.

Ships currently under construction:

Three Battle class Heavy Cruisers (due out late next year)
One Culverin class Monitor (due out in a bit less than two years)
One Cornucopia class Ammunition Tender (due out in a bit more than a year)
Two Spy class Reconnaisance Vessels (due out late this year)
Two Mule-II class Fast Freighters (due out next spring)
Two Orbital Fuel Refining Stations (due out next summer)

In addition, we are retooling a second civilian shipyard to produce Mule-II Fast Freighters... it was a tough choice, Freighters or more Rocks, but we really need to get our resource situation running smoothly... and all five of the Military Shipyards (total of ten slips) are upgrading by +1000 tons, so that we can start designing 16,000 ton warships, or build smaller ships faster (big slips build smaller vessels faster).

EDIT:

The ESN Paranoid has joined the Combined Fleet, making six Mountain-II class Carriers, two Admiral-II class Command Cruisers, one Battle class Heavy Cruiser, six Attitude-II class Light Cruisers and six Star-II class Destroyers in total... 21 ships.

Captain Trajan is assigned to command the Attitude-II class Light Cruiser ESN Paranoid. Commander Arnold Kiwi Rimmer is assigned to command the Star-II class Destroyer Procyon. Commander theFreakie is assigned to command the Grav-survey scout vessel ESN Maxwell.
 
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blue emu said:
As long as they can't pick up a size-8 target any further than they can detect a size-1 target... otherwise, they'll pick them off just before separation.

I just got caught in an endless loop of errors THREE TIMES while trying to swap the new Fighters onto the Carriers... :mad: ... I had to kill the program each time with the Task Manager to get out of the error cascade. I think it was caused by the ' mark in the auto-named squadron Lindberg's Own, because when I removed that ' mark, the error cascade stopped occurring. Grrrr...
Click to expand...

The ' character is a "special" character in most databases -- at an old job I once had a guy named O'Connor try to use a form on our web site and revealed a nice bug for my programmer to fix. I'd avoid it moving forward, especially since the game is in alpha and Steve likely hasn't worked around these types of things yet.

And I just want to say I'm learning a lot from reading along this forum game - I've restarted games several times but I've got a good one going now and have just figured out fighters and carriers (I was designing missile based fleets exclusively in earlier games).
 
trajan said:
The ' character is a "special" character in most databases -- at an old job I once had a guy named O'Connor try to use a form on our web site and revealed a nice bug for my programmer to fix. I'd avoid it moving forward, especially since the game is in alpha and Steve likely hasn't worked around these types of things yet.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I would never have assigned that name myself, just in case `was a special character. It was auto-assigned when the new squadron was created.

You just got a Light Cruiser, by the way. Check my edit above.
 
blue emu said:
You just got a Light Cruiser, by the way. Check my edit above.
Click to expand...

I live to serve in the Emu's navy. Can a promotion to Commodore be far behind? :D
 
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