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Picts or it didn't happen

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Five_X

Five_X

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Feb 13, 2013
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Anyone else hoping that the timeline shift means that we might get some Celtic paganism/druidism? Saint Columba mostly converted the Pictish kingdoms a while before 768, but it's not unreasonable that some traditional pagans might still be lingering about in the Isles.
 
Seems unlikely. "Some lingering" isn't enough to justify and counties or rulers having a particular religion, unless a particular historical ruler was one of those "lingering" worshipers. Same reason Hellenism isn't in any way represented in 867 even though there were a few lingering holdouts, and why Norse vanishes from the map before 1300 even though there were definitely still a handful of followers well into the 1400s.
 
Celtic paganism seems unlikely.

However Celtic Christianity should make an appearance.
I'd like it if Catholic and Orthodox Christianity were still united at this point, and instead Christians could be born into specific rites depending on their culture. Celtic rite for the Celts, Visigothic rite for the Iberians, Byzantine Rite for the Byzantines, Roman rite for the Latins, etc.

These rites should provide religious flavor and be like the sects of the Hindu religions, but events in the game could cause the practitioners of the rites to become an independent church in their own.

Obviously the Roman and Byzantine rites should split in the great Schism at one point, but it would be nice if you could alter history and have independent Celtic church too.
 
While Celtic Christianity was different from their Catholic counterpart, weren't the Irish Christians still loyal to the mainland Church? Unless it is supposed to affect the gameplay, there is not much point in it (albeit I agree that it would be cool to have a separate religion, but in that case I'd expect some better flavor).
 
Nyrael said:
While Celtic Christianity was different from their Catholic counterpart, weren't the Irish Christians still loyal to the mainland Church? Unless it is supposed to affect the gameplay, there is not much point in it (albeit I agree that it would be cool to have a separate religion, but in that case I'd expect some better flavor).
Click to expand...

They were always in communion with the Holy See in Rome I believe. They just had their own unique ways of worshiping. Chants, ornaments, rituals, etc. But no real theological discrepancies.

While seemingly minor, you could argue that the Great Schism happened more because of politics and differing styles of worship than deep theological divisions.
 
I believe the main divisions were sorted out by 700AD. There were still organisational differences though, there were no parishes or true dioceses in the Celtic (specifically Irish) church at this stage, but paruchia which were connected by the same founder.
 
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Also, while we're on the subject of the Picts. How will their culture be represented in the game?
As far as I know, scholars aren't even sure if they were actually Celts, though the consensus seems to be they were Brythonic Celts (like the Welsh).
But seeing as they hardly left behind written information, we don't even know how their language looked like and we don't know how they named themselves.
I guess you could give them Welsh names.
 
Nadi said:
Also, while we're on the subject of the Picts. How will their culture be represented in the game?
As far as I know, scholars aren't even sure if they were actually Celts, though the consensus seems to be they were Brythonic Celts (like the Welsh).
But seeing as they hardly left behind written information, we don't even know how their language looked like and we don't know how they named themselves.
I guess you could give them Welsh names.
Click to expand...

There are sources for Pictish names - http://www.peiraeuspubliclibrary.com/names/europa/picts.html
 
Nadi said:
Also, while we're on the subject of the Picts. How will their culture be represented in the game?
As far as I know, scholars aren't even sure if they were actually Celts, though the consensus seems to be they were Brythonic Celts (like the Welsh).
But seeing as they hardly left behind written information, we don't even know how their language looked like and we don't know how they named themselves.
I guess you could give them Welsh names.
Click to expand...

Many seem to have used Irish names at this point, though some Irish names may come from pictish too.
 
Well if you've seen this
RIoTKqX.jpg

You'll know that historical accuracy in the british isles is something that has clearly gone out of the window with the complete disregard for the cumbric and brythonic people who lived in the north-west of england and instead having them as 100% anglo saxon despite the fact that several areas in the north-west hadn't even been in anglo-saxon hands for more than a single generation.
And for that matter, historical accuracy everywhere seems to be more than a little bit, how to put this lightly, so comically terrible I don't even know whether to laugh or cry, especially with the 100% visigothic iberian peninsula (except for the basque bit) despite the fact that the visigoths had assimilated to the local vulgar-latin speaking culture about 200 years before the start date of 769
So yeah I wouldn't get your hopes up for anything of a high quality if I were you
 
We don't know that that map is final.

I hope its not, personally.
 
nalfz said:
Well if you've seen this
RIoTKqX.jpg

You'll know that historical accuracy in the british isles is something that has clearly gone out of the window with the complete disregard for the cumbric and brythonic people who lived in the north-west of england and instead having them as 100% anglo saxon despite the fact that several areas in the north-west hadn't even been in anglo-saxon hands for more than a single generation.
And for that matter, historical accuracy everywhere seems to be more than a little bit, how to put this lightly, so comically terrible I don't even know whether to laugh or cry, especially with the 100% visigothic iberian peninsula (except for the basque bit) despite the fact that the visigoths had assimilated to the local vulgar-latin speaking culture about 200 years before the start date of 769
So yeah I wouldn't get your hopes up for anything of a high quality if I were you
Click to expand...

I would note in your rage you ignored that parts of Crimea should also have a Gothic culture
 
Nyrael said:
While Celtic Christianity was different from their Catholic counterpart, weren't the Irish Christians still loyal to the mainland Church? Unless it is supposed to affect the gameplay, there is not much point in it (albeit I agree that it would be cool to have a separate religion, but in that case I'd expect some better flavor).
Click to expand...
Yes we were always part of the church in Rome, but at this time and for a good time after we were a pain in the ass for the Pope, so to speak. we didn't follow along exactly and often had our own take on things. That's why the Pope granted the right for a Norman expedition, because we weren't really seen as proper Catholics a lot of the time around then, certainly in the 1000s and before.
 
LYNCHY said:
Yes we were always part of the church in Rome, but at this time and for a good time after we were a pain in the ass for the Pope, so to speak. we didn't follow along exactly and often had our own take on things. That's why the Pope granted the right for a Norman expedition, because we weren't really seen as proper Catholics a lot of the time around then, certainly in the 1000s and before.
Click to expand...

What of having the different rites of the church, such as the celtic, latin, visagothic, eastern and so on., be their own schools of thought. While the default would be latin for most, this might be able to simiulate how the celtic and eastern rites while in communion with rome did things a tad different.
 
vyshan said:
What of having the different rites of the church, such as the celtic, latin, visagothic, eastern and so on., be their own schools of thought. While the default would be latin for most, this might be able to simiulate how the celtic and eastern rites while in communion with rome did things a tad different.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure it really makes much of a difference outside of latin/Byzantine, where just having Catholic/Orthodox makes as much sense. It would make it a deeper game yeah, but I'm not sure what could be done with it.
 
LYNCHY said:
I'm not sure it really makes much of a difference outside of latin/Byzantine, where just having Catholic/Orthodox makes as much sense. It would make it a deeper game yeah, but I'm not sure what could be done with it.
Click to expand...

Help simulate the Great Schism via a dynamic chain of events, with possible alt historic ones. Byzantine and Latin rites get along, but the Celts and Visigoths split off instead.
 
Labrynian Rebel said:
Help simulate the Great Schism via a dynamic chain of events, with possible alt historic ones. Byzantine and Latin rites get along, but the Celts and Visigoths split off instead.
Click to expand...
Would that really add a lot to gameplay though? it sounds like it would completely unbalance it, because presumably the latin rights would get a heresy CB on spain and Ireland, and well, that would be the end of that.
 
anomanderus said:
I would note in your rage you ignored that parts of Crimea should also have a Gothic culture
Click to expand...
That's not the only thing I ignored. I could have gone on a lot longer
And to be honest I'm not raging so much as just disappointed. I'm sort of half way between casually laughing at whatever this dlc is supposed to be and anger (probably much closer to laughing though, not much makes me angry, and certainly not a dlc that nobody's forcing me to buy), and that seems to be the sweet spot that results in a minor forum rant
 
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