[MOD] Tribes of the old Gods (CK2 Plus submod)

Thiomay · Dec 2, 2013

Tribes of the old Gods (View attachment TotOG-1.rar) OUTDATED! [DEAD]
for CK2 Plus 2.07.2

This is a Sub mod for CK2 Plus and was originally intended for the Old Gods starting Date use the TotNG Module for others.

The original idea was to better represent with what cultures or kingdoms the population in 867 might have identified with, to split the norse culture after spamming all around the world map so that when at the end you convert your game to EU4 there are still multiple cultures that still looks good. (i am not sure that last part will ever be possible) Bye now I mostly do what ever I want.

(I had a very traumatizing playthrough where most of Europe was either Norse or Russian, but Norse had no continuous Territory and was randomly spread on all coasts including the African coast.)

Features:

-New cultures, melting pot/unification events (German, Russian, South Slavic)
-New cultures and events for cultures, to split them up (mainly Slavic & Norse).
mod does not change vanilla culture names. (some screenshots taken with CST activated)
-Late game cultures (franconian and frankish shift to dutch, wallonian, burgundian in some regions)

complete new cultures list (in order of converter file appearence):

(might be spelled different in game)
Norse: Gutnish, Væringjar, Norn
German: Franconian, Swabian, Bavarian, Thuringian, Sachsen, Baltic Germans,
Anglo-frisian: Frisian
Latin: Venetian, Sardiginian, Lombardy, Burgundian, Wallonian, Tuscan, Ligurian, Corsican
Iberian: Nórdico
Finno-Ugric: Oeselians-Varangian
Arabic: Majus (i forgot the al is that an issue?)
East Slavic: Kievan
West Slavic: Sorbian, Obotritic, Moravian, Krivichian, Severin, Vyatichian, Vistulanian, Novgorodian, Schlesian, Radimichian, Withecroatian, Lendians, Dregovichian, Masovian
South Slavic: Panonian, Dalmatian, Bosnian, Carinthian

Converter list:

Code:

# CK2CULTURE;EU4CULTURE;Custom Defined;Comment

# North Germanic

norse;norse;1;Norse
swedish;swedish;0;Swedish
gutnish;gutnish;1;Gutnish
væringjar;væringjar;1;Væringjar
norwegian;norwegian;0;Norwegian
danish;danish;0;Danish
icelandic;icelandic;1;Icelandic
norn;norn;1;Norn

# Central Germanic

german;german;1;German
dutch;dutch;0;Dutch
Franconian;rheinlaender;0;Rheinlaender
Swabian;swabian;1;Swabian
Bavarian;bavarian;0;Bavarian
Thuringian;hessian;0;Hessian
Sachsen;saxon;0;Saxon
balto_germanic;prussian;0;Prussian
gothic;gothic;1;Gothic

# West Germanic

english;english;0;English
saxon;anglo_saxon;1;Anglo-Saxon
english_norse;anglo_norse;1;Anglo-Norse
Frisian;frisian;1;Frisian

# Latin

frankish;cosmopolitan_french;0;French
norman;normand;0;Norman
italian;umbrian;0;Umbrian 
occitan;occitain;0;Occitan
roman;roman;1;Roman
sicilian;sicilian;0;Sicilian
venetian;venetian;1;Venetian
sardinian;sardinian;1;Sardinian
langobard;lombard;0;Lombard
burgundian;burgundian;0;Burgundian
wallonian;wallonian;0;Wallonian
tuscan;tuscan;1;Tuscan
ligurian;ligurian;1;Ligurian
corsican;corsican;1;Corsican

# Iberian

basque;basque;0;Basque
castillan;castillian;0;Castillan
catalan;catalan;0;Catalan
portuguese;portugese;0;Portuguese
visigoth;galician;0;Galician

# Byzantine

armenian;armenian;0;Armenian
greek;greek;0;Greek
alan;alan;1;Alan
georgian;georgian;0;Georgian
sicilian_greek;sicilian;0;Sicilian

# Celtic

irish;irish;0;Irish
scottish;scottish;0;Scottish
welsh;welsh;0;Welsh
breton;breton;0;Breton
cornish;cornish;1;Cornish
gallawa;gallawa;1;Gallawa

# Finno-Ugric

finnish;finnish;0;Finnish
lappish;lappish;1;Lappish
ugricbaltic;estonian;0;Estonian
komi;komi;1;Komi
samoyed;samoyed;1;Samoyed
mordvin;mordvin;1;Mordvin
oeselians;oeselians;1;Oeselians-Varangian

# Baltic

lettigallish;latvian;0;Latvian
lithuanian;lithuanian;0;Lithuanian
prussian;old_prussian;0;Old Prussian

# Altaic

turkish;turkish;0;Turkish
pecheneg;pecheneg;1;Pecheneg
cuman;cuman;1;Cuman
khazar;khazar;1;Khazar
bolghar;bolghar;1;Bolghar
avar;avar;1;Avar
mongol;tartar;0;Tartar

# Arabic

bedouin_arabic;bedouin_arabic;0;Bedouin Arabic
maghreb_arabic;berber;0;Berber
levantine_arabic;levantine_arabic;1;Levantine
egyptian_arabic;egyptian_arabic;1;Egyptian
andalusian_arabic;andalucian;0;Andalusian Arabic
sicilian_arabic;maltese;0;Maltese 
vandal;maghreb_arabic;0;Magreb

# East Slavic

russian;russian;0;Russian
kievan;ruthenian;1;Kievan

# West Slavic

pommeranian;pommeranian;0;Pommeranian
bohemian;czech;0;Bohemian
polish;polish;0;Polish
sorbian;sorbian;1;Sorbian
polabian;obotritic;1;Obotritic
moravian;moravian;1;Moravian
slavic;russian;0;Russian
krivich;byelorussian;0;Byelorussian
severin;severin;1;Severin
vyatichi;vyatichi;1;Vyatichi
vistulan;vistulan;1;Vistulan
slovensky;slovensky;1;Slovensky
slezan;schlesian;0;Schlesian
radimich;radimich;1;Radimich
byelohravatski;byelohravatski;1;Byelohravatski
lendian;lendian;1;Lendian
dregovich;dregovich;1;Dregovich
masovian;masovian;1;Masovian

# South Slavic

croatian;croatian;0;Croatian
serbian;serbian;0;Serbian
romanian;romanian;0;Romanian
bulgarian;bulgarian;0;Bulgarian
panonian;panonian;1;Panonian
dalmatian;dalmatian;1;Dalmatian
bosnjani;bosnjani;1;Bosnjani
karantanci;slovene;1;Slovene

# Magyar

hungarian;hungarian;0;Hungarian

# Iranian

persian;persian;0;Persian
kurdish;kurdish;0;Kurdish

# East African

ethiopian;ethiopian;0;Ethiopian
nubian;nubian;0;Nubian
somali;somali;0;Somali

# West African

manden;mali;0;Manden
sosso;mali;0;Sosso
jolof;senegambian;0;Jolof
bafour;tuareg;0;Bafour

# Mesoamerican

nahuatl;aztek;0;Aztec

#Judaic

sephardic;sephardic;0;Sephardic
ashkenazi;ashkenazi;0;Ashkenazi
mizrahim;mizrahim;0;Mizrahim

#Crusaders

outremer;outremer;1;Outremer
latin;c_latin;1;Latin

Screenshots partialy outdated

-New dejura map, no united kingdom of Germany, holy roman empire moved to italy, (outdated)

Karlings:
-multiple kingdoms instead of united caroling empire
-made Bavaria an independent duchy ( dejure k_bavaria but petty kingdom at start date)
-Lotharingia Titular (dejure k_germany)
-event where royal branches (k_france/k_germany) separate from the Dynasty to counter Karling blobbing
-Empire Title from the start ( k_italy is dejure e_hre)
- Event were HRE becomes dejure

HRE becomes dejure
(event text is outdated)

(I have seen a lot of different stuff happen using these changes but multiple karling realms seem to finally have become rare after around 1100.)

-converter compatibility (not patched since ROI)

Used Id-ranges (since version 0.9)
Events: 1.000.200.000 - 1.000.202.999
Dynasties: 1.000.131.000 - 1.000.131.999

Planed features/to do:
-converter compatibility maybe for MEIOU & Taxes

Newest Version 1.0
View attachment TotOG-1.rar
Changelog:

Code:

Version 1.0
-BLG compatibility module included
-Tribes of the NEWGod Module added (for other starting dates)

Version 0.9
-compatibility with 3.0.0
-new kingdom of Lusatia/Thuringia (Brandenburg,Meissen,Thuringia,)
-modified HRE becomes electiv event (if Emperor isn't latin italy won't become elector)  

Version 0.8
-fixed HRE becomes Dejure event
-smarter slavic split (continuous borders)
-added oeselian-varangian culture and melting pot for novgarod
-added decision similar to mend schism for Baltic and Slavic
-added Tuscan, Corsican and Ligurian cultures from SWMH
-changed genarall culture conversion/go native events (more mean time modifiers less restriction/ don't need to be independent to spread your culture)
-reimplemented CK2+ Muscovite Kingdom (balance)
- changed localisation for norse fictional cultures split from norse

Version 0.7
-added custom cultures to retainer file
-kingdom of "man and the isles" changed north sea kingdom (now back to CK2+ canon)
-added AI chance to Slavic culture events
-fixed/changed a few events
-changed slovne localisation to Novgarodian
-added frisian duchy
-made gerle dejure k_germany

Version 0.6
- events for royal east and west Karoling dynasty branch to split of (possible only after 1000)
- event for hre to change to elective and  destroy a kingdom title for Aquitaine and Germany
- event for Pope to chose a new  holy roman Emperor from the catholic Kings if there is none
- event where vassals get a claim on Germany or HRE (might still not work)
- changed Lotharingia to Titular, Germany and France now use Austrasia and Neustria as Karolingian names (Lotharingia is dejure Austrasia.)
- Aquitaine  is electiv   
 
Version 0.5
-fixed Gothic culture event fires to often
-changed province cultures
-culture names all in English now 
-new Bosnian names
-Bavaria is a duchy now
-Germany is elective

known issues:
-random king tier character becomes holy roman emperor (fixed in next version)
-likely crashes to desktop after resigning the game. (possibly fixed)
-the converter doesn't work properly or exports the mod to EU4 folder on it's own, not sure if it's supposed to be like that.
- huge savegame files (possibly fixed)
-missing customized localization (event texts)
-missing translations
-questionable namelists
-missing/place holder dynasties (possibly fixed)
-missing Latin retainers

0.9 crashes to desktop are painfully frequent

Compatibility/requirements:
-CK2 + required, FTT module incompatible
-better armies won't work for new cultures

Credits
I took most of cultures form the ressorces thread, (some times renamed) some name lists were adjusted to better fit the period by adding vanilla names.

So thanks to:

-duinnin for the bosnjani, karantanci, væringjar, langobard sorbian, polabian (obotiritc in game), venetian cultures

-Chlodio for the Føroyingar (Faroese) culture (norn in game),gutnish culture

-Bloodmerchant for the thuringian,Old Frisian (Frisian in game), Frankish (Franconian), suebian (swabian), visigoth cultures. (some modified)

-ElFatih for the Bosnian culture

-Thure for the Sachsen culture

Also the discussion in this Thread was very helpful: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ures-and-titles-would-you-like-to-see-in-CKII

The feedback and support in this thread

The SWMH-Team for the Tuscan, Corsican and Ligurian cultures

And of course to the CK2+ and CK2+ Continuation Teams, whose work this mod is based on.

DISCLAIMER:

TotOG is not an official product of the CK2Plus Development Team or the CK2+ Continuation Team. It does not reflect the opinions of the CK2Plus Development Team or the CK2+ Continuation Team in any way, shape, or form. It is the personal creation of the Developers in their capacities as private entities.

Permission:
If you want to use parts of the mod in an other public mod I am okay with that also I'd like to hear about it (not required). Credit is also not required but appreciated. I can't speak for stuff like cultures that I didn't make or the CK2 + based files. (landed titles, provinces)

Newest version:
View attachment TotOG-0.9.rar

Old versions:

timetogetaway · Dec 2, 2013

Something to break up the norse culture when it (inevitably) conquers the world is exactly what I was looking for! I take that this is not compatible with the Better Armies module?

SBolshevik · Dec 2, 2013

What's with the weird-ass native names?

EDIT:

Thiomay said:
-duinnin for the bosnjani, karantanci, væringjar, langobard sorbian, polabian (obotiritc in game), venetian cultures

*has heart attack*
BURN THAT LIST! BURN IT WITH FIRE!

ndrgmm · Dec 2, 2013

Nice submod

Lombardi is plural, Veneto and Italiano is singular. I think they have to be all in the same form.

Why HRE only in italy?

SBolshevik · Dec 2, 2013

ndrgmm said:
Why HRE only in italy?

Likely because the HRE lays claim to Italy.
Unfortunately, that means that the HRE gets nothing from his German vassals. Illogical, I say.
EDIT: Some errors in the S. Slavic cultures:
1. Bošnjani and Karantanci are both plural nouns, whereas Srpski, Hrvatski, Bulgarski are masculine singular adjectives.
2. The Karantanci culture is simply too widespread.
3. Bulgarski culture should, AFAIK, be Bâlgarski.
Also, why do you have "native" names whereas every other culture in the game has its cultures in English.
And why does there exist a completely made up Panonian culture? For Bosnians I understand (heck, I even created them for my own mod), but why the hell do Panonians exist? And in of all places, Slavonia?

zeress · Dec 2, 2013

mod's looking good

Raczynski · Dec 2, 2013

"Polski" as a culture name doesn't make any sense.

1) The game is in English
2) The proper grammatical form in Polish for "Polish [culture]" would be "[kultura] Polska"
3) If you're going for historical authenticity then it's a bit anachronistic for 9th century.

Thiomay · Dec 2, 2013

SBolshevik said:
What's with the weird-ass native names?

EDIT:

*has heart attack*
BURN THAT LIST! BURN IT WITH FIRE!

ndrgmm said:
Nice submod

Lombardi is plural, Veneto and Italiano is singular. I think they have to be all in the same form.

Why HRE only in italy?

I had forgot how much controversy anything regarding culture brings. But you both have a valid point I was copying these word without fully understanding them.

Why they are in "foreign":
I used this mod along with it, http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?590476-MOD-CST-Culture-Specific-Titles, most of the time so non English names didn't seam wrong. (also made a version with mod cultures included, not sure if I may upload it though) At the same time though I did use English names for German cultures so there currently is no order regarding these things. Also I forgot to mention there might be localization/event texts missing or wrong, it really wasn't a priority until now. I appreciate any correction/feedback about those things. The downloadable version doesn't change vanilla culture names.

Why the Panonian culture/split up south slavic cultures:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?694778-Separate-Slavic-cultures

Nyrael said:
...So it is from 19th century to this day that Croats and Serbs had the same language. Before that it was radically more different... to the point Croats from different regions couldn't understand even one another.

Already in 867 AD Dalmatians and and Croats didn't consider one another the same culture. Actually, Dalmatia only started considering itself Croatian during Venetian rule in EU4 era.
Croatian Kings committed systematical assimilations of Dalmatians and Bosnians (which shows that they were also considered an alien culture) with intention to make them into one, Croatian culture. Arguably, Slavonia should be Pannonian culture in 867 and melt-pot into Croatian later.

I won't speak for other Slavs, but South Slavs were already culturally split in 867. Putting them into a unified South Slavic culture would be the polar opposite of well-presented.

Because I had no clue how to split them up so I based it on this post. But I remember that from researching what province should have what culture that Pannonian was problematic and I am open to the idea of taking it out. (also because of balance/making Croatia more likely)

Why Karantanci is so wide spread:
I originally researched it for the old CK2+ map so things might have changed. North of the Danube should be west slavic but the new maps provinces are on both sides of the river.

Edit: I changed the Province znjmo from Slavic to Bavarian and the Province austria from Carinthian to Slavic since then (makes more sense with the new map, in the old one all of austria was south of the Danube)

No that I think about it I was expecting more: "why are the Avars South Slavic"

zeress said:
mod's looking good

thx

SBolshevik · Dec 2, 2013

Just take my little tiny bit of advice - BURN THE BOŠNJANI LIST! That list has some of the stupidest (Egzon) and most anachronistic (Dženana, Emira) names I have ever seen. The only thing worse are the Finno-Ugric lists which are just absurd, and the vanilla Serbian and Croatian lists are slightly above it in quality.
I suggest using this list (courtesy of ElFatih):

Code:

bosnian = {
		graphical_culture = westernslavicgfx
		
		color = { 0.5 0.7 0.3 }

		male_names = {
			Budimir Beljak Boroje Boric Dabisa Dabiziv Grgur Hrvoje Hranoje Hrana Hranislav Ivan Ivanis Juraj Kulin Marko Matej Matija Ninoslav Nikola Ostoja Pavle Petar Pribil Pribislav Prijezda Povrzen Radic Radoje Radoslav Raden Radin Radun Radivoj Ratimir Sandalj Sanko Stjepan Sibislav Sigismund Silimir Tomislav Tomas Tvrtko Vladislav Vlatko Vojislav Vuk Vukac Vukan Vuksa Vukasin Vukosav 
		}
		female_names = {
			Anka Doroteja Desislava Drzislava Elizabeta Goisava Irina Ivana Izvorinka Ljiljana Ljubica Jelena Jerina Jelisaveta Jelisava Katarina Kosara Kujava Mara Marija Nada Olivera Radosava Radaca Radislava Radojka Resa Slavenka Stanislava Stojana Stojislava Teodora Vidoslava Vitaca Vojaca Vojina Vojsava Vojslava Zlomanica
		}
		
		from_dynasty_prefix = "od "
		
		male_patronym = "ic"
		prefix = no

		modifier = bosnian_culture_modifier
	}

This same list I use in my own mod.

ndrgmm · Dec 2, 2013

I can help with cultures, to diversify italian and lombard names (to make them truly different cultures; lombards have a lot of frankish and germanic names)

Thiomay · Dec 3, 2013

SBolshevik said:
Just take my little tiny bit of advice - BURN THE BOŠNJANI LIST! That list has some of the stupidest (Egzon) and most anachronistic (Dženana, Emira) names I have ever seen. The only thing worse are the Finno-Ugric lists which are just absurd, and the vanilla Serbian and Croatian lists are slightly above it in quality.
I suggest using this list (courtesy of ElFatih):

Code:

bosnian = { graphical_culture = westernslavicgfx color = { 0.5 0.7 0.3 } male_names = { Budimir Beljak Boroje Boric Dabisa Dabiziv Grgur Hrvoje Hranoje Hrana Hranislav Ivan Ivanis Juraj Kulin Marko Matej Matija Ninoslav Nikola Ostoja Pavle Petar Pribil Pribislav Prijezda Povrzen Radic Radoje Radoslav Raden Radin Radun Radivoj Ratimir Sandalj Sanko Stjepan Sibislav Sigismund Silimir Tomislav Tomas Tvrtko Vladislav Vlatko Vojislav Vuk Vukac Vukan Vuksa Vukasin Vukosav } female_names = { Anka Doroteja Desislava Drzislava Elizabeta Goisava Irina Ivana Izvorinka Ljiljana Ljubica Jelena Jerina Jelisaveta Jelisava Katarina Kosara Kujava Mara Marija Nada Olivera Radosava Radaca Radislava Radojka Resa Slavenka Stanislava Stojana Stojislava Teodora Vidoslava Vitaca Vojaca Vojina Vojsava Vojslava Zlomanica } from_dynasty_prefix = "od " male_patronym = "ic" prefix = no modifier = bosnian_culture_modifier }

This same list I use in my own mod.

Thanks I'll do that.

timetogetaway said:
Something to break up the norse culture when it (inevitably) conquers the world is exactly what I was looking for! I take that this is not compatible with the Better Armies module?

I don't know about Better Armies, haven't tried it yet or look at it's files.
Edit: I think it should work. It doesn't crash and it replaces different files.
Edit2: but my custom cultures won't work with better Armies so I would need to make a compatibility patch

ndrgmm said:
Nice submod

Lombardi is plural, Veneto and Italiano is singular. I think they have to be all in the same form.

Why HRE only in italy?

The Western Roman empire in 867 would still be mostly associated with Italy. The way I see it, it shouldn't matter to the dejura layout of 867 how the HRE developed after this point in real life. Why shouldn't the westfrankish king become emperor and an entirely different are become the equivalent of the HRE we know.

ndrgmm said:
I can help with cultures, to diversify italian and lombard names (to make them truly different cultures; lombards have a lot of frankish and germanic names)

Yeah, I should have guessed that since it was called langobard. (game still uses it as tag) I'd gladly incorporate a more accurate version. The advanced cultures mod also has a lot of Italian (and other) cultures maybe i can do a trade

.

schwarherz · Dec 3, 2013

Thiomay said:
The Western Roman empire in 867 would still be mostly associated with Italy. The way I see it, it shouldn't matter to the dejura layout of 867 how the HRE developed after this point in real life. Why shouldn't the westfrankish king become emperor and an entirely different are become the equivalent of the HRE we know.

The Western Roman Empire was completely and totally defunct by 500AD. The Holy Roman Empire, on the other hand, was founded by Karl Der Grosse (I refuse to call him Charlemagne) in 800 (though, to be fair, there's a historical debate whether the HRE and the Carolingian Empire are the same thing). He was Frankish, and his realm was focused more in modern day France/Germany than in Italy. Charles The Fat was the last De Facto Carolingian emperor but died in 888 and the Carolingian Empire fell apart. AFTER Charles The Fat, the empire was focused in Italy (that is, the "emperor" only held titles in Italy). The Imperial title was tossed around a bit (I dont feel like tracking down the list of who held it and when and if/when it stopped being used entirely). In 936 Otto was elected king of East Francia/Germany. In 951 he defended the Queen of Italy and subsequently married her, becoming king of Italy. In 955 he defeated the Magyars (way over simplification but meh). In 962 he was crowned emperor by the pope, restoring the HRE (or forming it, depending on which historian you listen to).

Anywho. What I'm saying is that it's not historically accurate for the empire to ONLY have Italy de jure in 867 and the "Roman Empire" was Frankish in 867, so focused in Francia.

CrabHelmet · Dec 3, 2013

Raczynski said:
"Polski" as a culture name doesn't make any sense.

1) The game is in English
2) The proper grammatical form in Polish for "Polish [culture]" would be "[kultura] Polska"
3) If you're going for historical authenticity then it's a bit anachronistic for 9th century.

As a question, what would you use? Polanie?

Thiomay · Dec 3, 2013

schwarherz said:
The Western Roman Empire was completely and totally defunct by 500AD. The Holy Roman Empire, on the other hand, was founded by Karl Der Grosse (I refuse to call him Charlemagne) in 800 (though, to be fair, there's a historical debate whether the HRE and the Carolingian Empire are the same thing). He was Frankish, and his realm was focused more in modern day France/Germany than in Italy. Charles The Fat was the last De Facto Carolingian emperor but died in 888 and the Carolingian Empire fell apart. AFTER Charles The Fat, the empire was focused in Italy (that is, the "emperor" only held titles in Italy). The Imperial title was tossed around a bit (I dont feel like tracking down the list of who held it and when and if/when it stopped being used entirely). In 936 Otto was elected king of East Francia/Germany. In 951 he defended the Queen of Italy and subsequently married her, becoming king of Italy. In 955 he defeated the Magyars (way over simplification but meh). In 962 he was crowned emperor by the pope, restoring the HRE (or forming it, depending on which historian you listen to).

Anywho. What I'm saying is that it's not historically accurate for the empire to ONLY have Italy de jure in 867 and the "Roman Empire" was Frankish in 867, so focused in Francia.

But Karl der Große only became emperor after he conquered Italy and restored the western roman empire who's core territory we can agree was Italy. Contrary to the English Wikipedia, German Wikipedia doesn't have a Caroling empire article and lists Karl den Großen in a list of roman empirors from 800-924 so maybe the differant interpretaions are regional. Continuity is always tricky sure it's not the Roman empire in terms of administrative structure or culture but obviously the Carolings wanted to be associated with the western roman empire (Actually it was the popes idea to have Karl as Emperor, making him the one who has a say in this in the future). The Title Caesar/Kaiser only makes sense if you're coping rome and see your self as it. Title and state also don't have to be the same thing, it might be a new empire in many ways with same title faking continuity.

I wouldn't say the HRE was suddenly founded either way, it developed from the roman/caroling empire. Edit: that's phrased very badly I meant that it doesn't have the exact same structure the entire time so it developed from the caroling empire in the sense that it built on it's structure and then became than became it's own thing entirely with it's own traditions over time.

schwarherz · Dec 3, 2013

Thiomay said:
But Karl der Große only became emperor after he conquered Italy and restored the western roman empire who's core territory we can agree was Italy. Contrary to the English Wikipedia, German Wikipedia doesn't have a Caroling empire article and lists Karl den Großen in a list of roman empirors from 800-924 so maybe the differant interpretaions are regional. Continuity is always tricky sure it's not the Roman empire in terms of administrative structure or culture but obviously the Carolings wanted to be associated with the western roman empire (Actually it was the popes idea to have Karl as Emperor, making him the one who has a say in this in the future). The Title Caesar/Kaiser only makes sense if you're coping rome and see your self as it. Title and state also don't have to be the same thing, it might be a new empire in many ways with same title faking continuity.

I wouldn't say the HRE was suddenly founded either way, it developed from the roman/caroling empire.

There is no carling empire entry on the english wikipedia either. The entry is on the hre page under caroling precursors. I admittedly didn't check the list of Roman emperors, but i did check the article about the wre which is where it says it ended by 500.

Raczynski · Dec 3, 2013

CrabHelmet said:
As a question, what would you use? Polanie?

Polans, if I was going to include them as a separate tribe. My own mod though would be a generic West Slavic culture that branches out once realms like Poland or Bohemia are founded.

Thiomay · Dec 4, 2013

schwarherz said:
There is no carling empire entry on the english wikipedia either. The entry is on the hre page under caroling precursors. I admittedly didn't check the list of Roman emperors, but i did check the article about the wre which is where it says it ended by 500.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Empire it's linked to on the Charlemagne page around the same line where the German Wikipedia links to a list of roman Emperors that's why I brought it up but it's just the name "roman" that's the same there it's not in a list withe pre 500 emperors so it's not such a big differnce.

Your right I shouldn't have used the term western roman empire, that clearly is associated with the per 500 empre, I wanted to use it as opposite to the eastern roman empire. Technically the Germans elected the German/Roman King not the Emperor the dejura change of the empire doesn't keep them from that. It's not like the Karlings are really fun or plausible as my mod currently is but gonna try to make it work this way.

Raczynski said:
Polans, if I was going to include them as a separate tribe. My own mod though would be a generic West Slavic culture that branches out once realms like Poland or Bohemia are founded.

If kingdoms are founded the Slavic cultures will split up pretty fast in my mod but it doesn't happen so often so they split according to duchy-realms later.

Sakura_F · Dec 12, 2013

What's the difference between Slovensky and Russian?

Athalcor · Dec 12, 2013

Sakura_F said:
What's the difference between Slovensky and Russian?

Well, both mean absolutely different things, at least IRL (as 'Slovensky' means 'Slovak', i.e. the adjective for Slovakia).

The mod does not seem to be well-localised for Slavs

. That's what you get when you resort to native names while not actually speaking the said languages.

Miaow · Dec 12, 2013

Given that the Carolingian "Roman" Empire was already well on its way to collapse in 867 anyway, I'd just make it titular. If it lasts it can establish its de jure area through drift, otherwise it will be formed by however resurects the HRE title.

Among the Carolingians, it just meant primus inter pares over the other Carolingians; among the Italian "Emperors" it was a claim to rule all Italy which none of them ever managed to enforce.

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