Duct-Tape The Theism, Mend the Schism.
Combining Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Islam under the rule of the Emperor.
This is how I vassalised the 3 Popes, 7 Patriarchs, 2 Caliphs and 6 Holy Orders as the Byzantine Emperor using vanilla 1.091 CK2 (+LOR +Republic -SOI -SI) with no mods bar for 1 edited line increasing game end date to 1999. No console cheating or switching characters. All legitimate game play with admittedly a few reloads when things didn't go as expected.
Ok, a few things before I start...
Yes, this is extraordinarily gamey.
Yes, some of the methods required are extremely exploitative and will probably be patched.
I understand some people might be upset at the lack of role-play and my complete disregard for in-game character morality or even the historical inaccuracy of my goal. To those people, I apologise. I'm afraid this thread is not for you.
However, for those who are interested I will explain how I was able to vassalise the entire religious hierarchy of Europe and the Middle East into an area the size of the Bulgarian Kingdom under the Orthodox Byzantine Emperor.
Vassalised religious heads were:
Catholic Pope (The Papacy)
Catholic Anti-Pope (Papacy pretender)
Coptic Pope (Miaphysite Patriarch)
Monophysite Pope (Monophysite Patriarch. Miaphysite heresy)
Patriarch of the East (Nestorian Patriarch. Orthodox heresy)
Monothelite Patriarch (Monothelite Patriarch. Orthodox heresy)
Ecumenical Patriarch (Orthodox Patriarch for Constantinople)
Patriarch of Antioch (Orthodox Patriarch for the Kingdoms of Syria and Mesopotamia)
Patriarch of Jerusalem (Orthodox Patriarch for the Kingdoms of Jerusalem and Arabia)
Patriarch of Alexandria (Orthodox Patriarch for the Kingdoms of Egypt, Africa and Abyssinia)
Patriarch of Rome (Orthodox Patriarch for Western Europe)
Shia Caliph (The Fatimid Emirate)
Sunni Caliph (The Seljuk Beylerbeylik)
Grandmaster of the Knights Templar (Catholic Holy Order)
Hochmeister of the Teutonic Order (Catholic Holy Order)
Grandmaster of the Knights Hospitaller (Catholic Holy Order)
Captain of Mamluks (Shia Vassalised Mercenary)
Captain of Ghilman (Sunni Vassalised Mercenary)
Grand Headmaster of The Hashshashin (Shia Holy Order)
As far as I can tell, there are no religious heads for any of the Catholic heresies nor for Bogomilist or Iconoclast Orthodox heresies. Also currently none for the pagan religions or the Islamic heresies.
The Forceful communion of well... Everyone!
Starting as the Byz Emperor in 1066 you need to stabilise the realm otherwise you will be constantly battling revolts. Eventually, everyone and their mother literally have claims on everything. This will be made worse when you begin landing the Muslim leaders as they will always be creating crown and independence factions.
Allow the Seljuk invasion to drain through attrition and then defend full force on mountains. After invasion fails....banish all Dukes, Counts and Bishops (Mayors and Barons dont matter). Reorganise so that there is a newly created Greek Orthodox non-claimant Prince-Archbishop for each de-jure duchy (except for the Duchy of Antioch. Keep that free).
I also eventually ended up creating 1 merchant republic in Crimea just to keep those pesky Italians away.
With this cheesy set-up I was able to permanently have at least the 3 most expensive merc companies + the Varangian Guard raised the entire game. Never disbanded. Not to mention the Muslim mercs I vassalised along the way.
Step 1. Vassalising the Orthodox heresies
Using the: Find Character > Sort by religion you can find any male (0 years or older) of the Nestorian religion to give the Prince-bishopric of Antioch to. Almost instantaneously he will automatically die and be replaced with an adult male vassalised ducal level Patriarch of the East. As an Orthodox heresy, you can simply revoke the land title and have him floating around Antioch still vassalised. You will not lose the vassalisation on his death, simply a new guy will take his spot.
Do the same thing for a Monothelite male (0 years or older). That will create the Monothelite Patriarch. Revoke his land title and generate a new Greek-Orthodox Prince-Archbishop for the Duchy of Antioch. He will now be your Orthodox Patriarch for the Syrian and Mesopotamian Kingdoms.
Step 2. Vassalising the Coptic church
Holy-war your way down through Syria and Mesopotamia (skip all duchies in de-jure Kingdom of Jerusalem. We'll join a Jihad for this later lol)
When the Catholic crusade for Jerusalem is called, holy war Alexandria. Marine assault the Muslim doom stacks that are killing off the Catholics. Keep picking them off until it looks like the Catholics are starting to win. (Of course, they'll all want to move up and down the coast in 1 big stack not actually sieging anything... but you can help them again later after you take Alexandria. Just dont let them fail) While the Catholic crusade was happening, I was able to continually break truces and capture north east Africa and Syria while helping France win the first crusade.
To vassalise the Coptic Pope find any male (0 years and older) of the Miaphysite religion and give him the Prince-Bishopric of Alexandria. Same as the Orthodox heresies, he will magically die and an adult vassalised Coptic Pope will appear. To remove the Coptic Pope from Alexandria without global malice you will need to fabricate a claim on the county. Once you have that, remove him and add any male of the Monophysite religion to Alexandria. Like me, you may have to breed or educate one, as I seemed to only have females available. Lastly, remove the Monophysite Pope and add a random Greek Orthodox guy to Alexandria to create the Patriarch of Egypt, Abyssinia and Africa.
Step 3. Vassalising The Sunni and Shia Caliphs and gaining access to the Mamluks and Ghilmans.
First you need to confirm that the Caliphs exist.
Easiest way to check is to look at any Sunni character page. Place the cursor over the portrait so you can view the drop-down info box. If the Sunni Caliphate exists, it will be listed there under religious head. Works the same for the Shia Caliphate.
Use the character finder to find each Caliph and follow the liege links up to the top liege. Find either a strong or a weak claimant to the top liege's primary title. For the Shia Caliph it is most likely the Fatimid Sultanate/Emirate.
Unfortunately it is rare to find Fatimid/Seljuk claimants willing to come to your court freely, and since Muslims cant marry matrilineally the usual matri-marry trick doesn't work. However, what you can do is send off a fresh Greek orthodox girl to marry the un-landed claimant normally (this can sometimes include a direct heir). Once he accepts her into his court, talk to the girl again before she gets too comfortable. Offer her some money and then invite her back to your court. 99% of the time she will accept and as all good husbands do... the strong claim Fatimid/Seljuk will follow her to your court. Land him and BOOM, you now have an instant win capture all Fatamid/Seljuk lands in 2 press claim wars. As I said, extremely overpowered and probably broken, fully expect it to be patched.... but I loved using it for just this situation.
If you are pressing a weak claim while the Muslims are going through their succession crisis, you MUST help the liege fend off the usurpers first, before taking on the real guys. If a usurper from a different dynasty takes over the primary title, the Caliphate will be destroyed.
Once you have won the claim and the Persian/Arabian, King/Superduke is your vassal, revoke all his titles including the primary title (It will be for 0 global malice for revoking an infidel title). Find the Caliph who should now be your direct vassal, give him land in your de-jure kingdom, 1 county in a 3 county duchy is fine, but it must be a county level. If the Caliph has a barony as its only land title the Caliphate will be destroyed at the next succession.
Now that you have both the Sunni and Shia Caliphates as vassals, the Mamluk and Ghilman holy order/mercenaries are available to hire at very reasonable prices. Also, I don't recall ever having a problem using them against other muslims. Certainly no problem against Islamic heresies (as that was all I was fighting after gobbling up both Caliphates)
Step 4. The Hashshashin
By now the Hashshashin should have been given a barony somewhere in Syria. Use the find strong claimant > marry > pay girl > invite her back and she will bring the husband to your court. Press claim and win. However, by “win” I just mean... “still lose but with a fuzzy warm feeling”. Even when the Hashshashin are your vassals they will still periodically kill off your courtiers. I even tried it having converted the Hashshashin claimant to Orthodox first before pressing claim. Still with the stabby stabby. I have not yet found a way to raise their army.
Step 5. Patriarch of Jerusalem and Arabia
Obviously you can just capture the Holy land normally. But since this whole campaign is gamey as hell... I thought Id share how I won Jerusalem.
Both vassal Caliphs will still call Jihads against enemy Christians (but not against you it seems) and can still field 10k armies with just a single county. The French owned Kingdom of Jerusalem and the HRE Mauritania both had wars declared against them while I was the Caliph's liege. You can use this to effectively join a Jihad. After the Jihad is called, you can invite and press claim for any barony, county or duchy in the target region (no need to land the claimant). Importantly, do not siege any lands. Just assist the Muslims to defeat the enemy armies and let them capture the territory. Once the Jihad has been won, all lands will now be yours albeit filled with Muslim rulers. Revoke and install an Orthodox male to the Prince-Bishopric of Jerusalem. He will now be the Patriarch for the Kingdoms of Jerusalem and Arabia.
Step 6. Vassalising the Catholic Pope.
While vassalising the Pope has become easy for the Catholic Empire tier rulers with the anti-pope claim pushers, its not so straight-forward for the Orthodox. Pretty much means you have to become Catholic and appoint your own anti-pope and press his claim. I guess this is possible through educating a single generation of your linage to be Catholic... but that is a very long and random process.
For the easy method you will need: 2000+ piety, all the prerequisite lands for the Mending of the Great Schism, 3 castle holdings held by you that you are willing to give away (doesnt matter whether they are counties or just baronies), and a Prince-Archbishop with good relationship with you... and a relatively old Emperor who you suspect will die shortly.
Mend the Schism.
Shortly after the Schism is mended you will be approached by multiple courtiers who remained catholic asking if you want to join their heresy. Accept their offer. Be warned though, turning heretic will drop your CA to low and you will be unable to increase it until after your heir becomes crowned.
Now you are Catholic, ask that nice Prince-Archbishop to convert as well. When he accepts, make him an anti-pope. Press his claim. I am 100% positive that the new Pope does not need a King level title to become your vassal. Now that you control The Papacy, you can now create a Catholic Anti-Pope.
Step 7. Locking up the Catholic holy orders.
Only thing left is to grant all 3 Catholic holy order leaders a barony each. You can only give them land while you are Catholic. However, if they are already landed, it is rare but possible to use the invite claimant > land claimant > press claim on them while still Orthodox.
While you can raise and use the Orders for as long as you are Catholic, as soon as you revert back to Orthodox they will just disband. However, you have now effectively denied any remaining Catholic states the use of them.
To vassalise the Catholic holy order after you have given them a castle, you need to give them a duchy level title in your de-jure kingdom. The best way I found was to just give them your demesne duchy title without giving them any of the lower holdings. This will remove the 'is not de-jure liege' modifier and will usually be sufficient. Once he has accept vassalisation, freely Imperial revoke the demesne duchy title and give it to the next holy order. Rinse and repeat.
To revert back to Orthodox simply use the intrigue option that costs 500 piety to return to the 'true' faith.
Step 8. Bonus deity credit. Become Sayyid, a patrilineal descendant of Muhammad's relative's bloodline.
You most likely wont be able to invite a Sayyid to your court directly unless you marry him to one of your random orthodox Debbies and then invite her back to your court.
To be able to convert a Sayyid male normally, find one that is in your realm using the find character > not of my religion. Give him a county and duchy. Marry him to a randy wife and then bribe and convert him to Orthodox. While you may not be able to matri-marry your Queen to his eldest son/pretenders, if he has enough kids you'll be able to snag one of the boys as a Prince-consort. Ensuring that your paternal bloodline is now traceable back to the first Caliph.
Where is your God now?
While I dont know the spiritual answer to that question... he is definitely now living in the Byzantine Empire.
Combining Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Islam under the rule of the Emperor.
This is how I vassalised the 3 Popes, 7 Patriarchs, 2 Caliphs and 6 Holy Orders as the Byzantine Emperor using vanilla 1.091 CK2 (+LOR +Republic -SOI -SI) with no mods bar for 1 edited line increasing game end date to 1999. No console cheating or switching characters. All legitimate game play with admittedly a few reloads when things didn't go as expected.
Ok, a few things before I start...
Yes, this is extraordinarily gamey.
Yes, some of the methods required are extremely exploitative and will probably be patched.
I understand some people might be upset at the lack of role-play and my complete disregard for in-game character morality or even the historical inaccuracy of my goal. To those people, I apologise. I'm afraid this thread is not for you.
However, for those who are interested I will explain how I was able to vassalise the entire religious hierarchy of Europe and the Middle East into an area the size of the Bulgarian Kingdom under the Orthodox Byzantine Emperor.
Vassalised religious heads were:
Catholic Pope (The Papacy)
Catholic Anti-Pope (Papacy pretender)
Coptic Pope (Miaphysite Patriarch)
Monophysite Pope (Monophysite Patriarch. Miaphysite heresy)
Patriarch of the East (Nestorian Patriarch. Orthodox heresy)
Monothelite Patriarch (Monothelite Patriarch. Orthodox heresy)
Ecumenical Patriarch (Orthodox Patriarch for Constantinople)
Patriarch of Antioch (Orthodox Patriarch for the Kingdoms of Syria and Mesopotamia)
Patriarch of Jerusalem (Orthodox Patriarch for the Kingdoms of Jerusalem and Arabia)
Patriarch of Alexandria (Orthodox Patriarch for the Kingdoms of Egypt, Africa and Abyssinia)
Patriarch of Rome (Orthodox Patriarch for Western Europe)
Shia Caliph (The Fatimid Emirate)
Sunni Caliph (The Seljuk Beylerbeylik)
Grandmaster of the Knights Templar (Catholic Holy Order)
Hochmeister of the Teutonic Order (Catholic Holy Order)
Grandmaster of the Knights Hospitaller (Catholic Holy Order)
Captain of Mamluks (Shia Vassalised Mercenary)
Captain of Ghilman (Sunni Vassalised Mercenary)
Grand Headmaster of The Hashshashin (Shia Holy Order)
As far as I can tell, there are no religious heads for any of the Catholic heresies nor for Bogomilist or Iconoclast Orthodox heresies. Also currently none for the pagan religions or the Islamic heresies.
The Forceful communion of well... Everyone!
Starting as the Byz Emperor in 1066 you need to stabilise the realm otherwise you will be constantly battling revolts. Eventually, everyone and their mother literally have claims on everything. This will be made worse when you begin landing the Muslim leaders as they will always be creating crown and independence factions.
Allow the Seljuk invasion to drain through attrition and then defend full force on mountains. After invasion fails....banish all Dukes, Counts and Bishops (Mayors and Barons dont matter). Reorganise so that there is a newly created Greek Orthodox non-claimant Prince-Archbishop for each de-jure duchy (except for the Duchy of Antioch. Keep that free).
I also eventually ended up creating 1 merchant republic in Crimea just to keep those pesky Italians away.
With this cheesy set-up I was able to permanently have at least the 3 most expensive merc companies + the Varangian Guard raised the entire game. Never disbanded. Not to mention the Muslim mercs I vassalised along the way.
Step 1. Vassalising the Orthodox heresies
Using the: Find Character > Sort by religion you can find any male (0 years or older) of the Nestorian religion to give the Prince-bishopric of Antioch to. Almost instantaneously he will automatically die and be replaced with an adult male vassalised ducal level Patriarch of the East. As an Orthodox heresy, you can simply revoke the land title and have him floating around Antioch still vassalised. You will not lose the vassalisation on his death, simply a new guy will take his spot.
Do the same thing for a Monothelite male (0 years or older). That will create the Monothelite Patriarch. Revoke his land title and generate a new Greek-Orthodox Prince-Archbishop for the Duchy of Antioch. He will now be your Orthodox Patriarch for the Syrian and Mesopotamian Kingdoms.
Step 2. Vassalising the Coptic church
Holy-war your way down through Syria and Mesopotamia (skip all duchies in de-jure Kingdom of Jerusalem. We'll join a Jihad for this later lol)
When the Catholic crusade for Jerusalem is called, holy war Alexandria. Marine assault the Muslim doom stacks that are killing off the Catholics. Keep picking them off until it looks like the Catholics are starting to win. (Of course, they'll all want to move up and down the coast in 1 big stack not actually sieging anything... but you can help them again later after you take Alexandria. Just dont let them fail) While the Catholic crusade was happening, I was able to continually break truces and capture north east Africa and Syria while helping France win the first crusade.
To vassalise the Coptic Pope find any male (0 years and older) of the Miaphysite religion and give him the Prince-Bishopric of Alexandria. Same as the Orthodox heresies, he will magically die and an adult vassalised Coptic Pope will appear. To remove the Coptic Pope from Alexandria without global malice you will need to fabricate a claim on the county. Once you have that, remove him and add any male of the Monophysite religion to Alexandria. Like me, you may have to breed or educate one, as I seemed to only have females available. Lastly, remove the Monophysite Pope and add a random Greek Orthodox guy to Alexandria to create the Patriarch of Egypt, Abyssinia and Africa.
Step 3. Vassalising The Sunni and Shia Caliphs and gaining access to the Mamluks and Ghilmans.
First you need to confirm that the Caliphs exist.
Easiest way to check is to look at any Sunni character page. Place the cursor over the portrait so you can view the drop-down info box. If the Sunni Caliphate exists, it will be listed there under religious head. Works the same for the Shia Caliphate.
Use the character finder to find each Caliph and follow the liege links up to the top liege. Find either a strong or a weak claimant to the top liege's primary title. For the Shia Caliph it is most likely the Fatimid Sultanate/Emirate.
Unfortunately it is rare to find Fatimid/Seljuk claimants willing to come to your court freely, and since Muslims cant marry matrilineally the usual matri-marry trick doesn't work. However, what you can do is send off a fresh Greek orthodox girl to marry the un-landed claimant normally (this can sometimes include a direct heir). Once he accepts her into his court, talk to the girl again before she gets too comfortable. Offer her some money and then invite her back to your court. 99% of the time she will accept and as all good husbands do... the strong claim Fatimid/Seljuk will follow her to your court. Land him and BOOM, you now have an instant win capture all Fatamid/Seljuk lands in 2 press claim wars. As I said, extremely overpowered and probably broken, fully expect it to be patched.... but I loved using it for just this situation.
If you are pressing a weak claim while the Muslims are going through their succession crisis, you MUST help the liege fend off the usurpers first, before taking on the real guys. If a usurper from a different dynasty takes over the primary title, the Caliphate will be destroyed.
Once you have won the claim and the Persian/Arabian, King/Superduke is your vassal, revoke all his titles including the primary title (It will be for 0 global malice for revoking an infidel title). Find the Caliph who should now be your direct vassal, give him land in your de-jure kingdom, 1 county in a 3 county duchy is fine, but it must be a county level. If the Caliph has a barony as its only land title the Caliphate will be destroyed at the next succession.
Now that you have both the Sunni and Shia Caliphates as vassals, the Mamluk and Ghilman holy order/mercenaries are available to hire at very reasonable prices. Also, I don't recall ever having a problem using them against other muslims. Certainly no problem against Islamic heresies (as that was all I was fighting after gobbling up both Caliphates)
Step 4. The Hashshashin
By now the Hashshashin should have been given a barony somewhere in Syria. Use the find strong claimant > marry > pay girl > invite her back and she will bring the husband to your court. Press claim and win. However, by “win” I just mean... “still lose but with a fuzzy warm feeling”. Even when the Hashshashin are your vassals they will still periodically kill off your courtiers. I even tried it having converted the Hashshashin claimant to Orthodox first before pressing claim. Still with the stabby stabby. I have not yet found a way to raise their army.
Step 5. Patriarch of Jerusalem and Arabia
Obviously you can just capture the Holy land normally. But since this whole campaign is gamey as hell... I thought Id share how I won Jerusalem.
Both vassal Caliphs will still call Jihads against enemy Christians (but not against you it seems) and can still field 10k armies with just a single county. The French owned Kingdom of Jerusalem and the HRE Mauritania both had wars declared against them while I was the Caliph's liege. You can use this to effectively join a Jihad. After the Jihad is called, you can invite and press claim for any barony, county or duchy in the target region (no need to land the claimant). Importantly, do not siege any lands. Just assist the Muslims to defeat the enemy armies and let them capture the territory. Once the Jihad has been won, all lands will now be yours albeit filled with Muslim rulers. Revoke and install an Orthodox male to the Prince-Bishopric of Jerusalem. He will now be the Patriarch for the Kingdoms of Jerusalem and Arabia.
Step 6. Vassalising the Catholic Pope.
While vassalising the Pope has become easy for the Catholic Empire tier rulers with the anti-pope claim pushers, its not so straight-forward for the Orthodox. Pretty much means you have to become Catholic and appoint your own anti-pope and press his claim. I guess this is possible through educating a single generation of your linage to be Catholic... but that is a very long and random process.
For the easy method you will need: 2000+ piety, all the prerequisite lands for the Mending of the Great Schism, 3 castle holdings held by you that you are willing to give away (doesnt matter whether they are counties or just baronies), and a Prince-Archbishop with good relationship with you... and a relatively old Emperor who you suspect will die shortly.
Mend the Schism.
Shortly after the Schism is mended you will be approached by multiple courtiers who remained catholic asking if you want to join their heresy. Accept their offer. Be warned though, turning heretic will drop your CA to low and you will be unable to increase it until after your heir becomes crowned.
Now you are Catholic, ask that nice Prince-Archbishop to convert as well. When he accepts, make him an anti-pope. Press his claim. I am 100% positive that the new Pope does not need a King level title to become your vassal. Now that you control The Papacy, you can now create a Catholic Anti-Pope.
Step 7. Locking up the Catholic holy orders.
Only thing left is to grant all 3 Catholic holy order leaders a barony each. You can only give them land while you are Catholic. However, if they are already landed, it is rare but possible to use the invite claimant > land claimant > press claim on them while still Orthodox.
While you can raise and use the Orders for as long as you are Catholic, as soon as you revert back to Orthodox they will just disband. However, you have now effectively denied any remaining Catholic states the use of them.
To vassalise the Catholic holy order after you have given them a castle, you need to give them a duchy level title in your de-jure kingdom. The best way I found was to just give them your demesne duchy title without giving them any of the lower holdings. This will remove the 'is not de-jure liege' modifier and will usually be sufficient. Once he has accept vassalisation, freely Imperial revoke the demesne duchy title and give it to the next holy order. Rinse and repeat.
To revert back to Orthodox simply use the intrigue option that costs 500 piety to return to the 'true' faith.
Step 8. Bonus deity credit. Become Sayyid, a patrilineal descendant of Muhammad's relative's bloodline.
You most likely wont be able to invite a Sayyid to your court directly unless you marry him to one of your random orthodox Debbies and then invite her back to your court.
To be able to convert a Sayyid male normally, find one that is in your realm using the find character > not of my religion. Give him a county and duchy. Marry him to a randy wife and then bribe and convert him to Orthodox. While you may not be able to matri-marry your Queen to his eldest son/pretenders, if he has enough kids you'll be able to snag one of the boys as a Prince-consort. Ensuring that your paternal bloodline is now traceable back to the first Caliph.
Where is your God now?
While I dont know the spiritual answer to that question... he is definitely now living in the Byzantine Empire.
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