[Mini-MOD in process] Jewish Religion and Culture

Thure · May 22, 2012

So... For my map mod I will ade some Jewish. But I can do ot also wihout the map.

My plans:
-Add Jewish Religion
-Add Jewish Culture (So they can became Jewish names. I have think on Ashkenazic and Sephardi. But I need one for north Africa and the Orient)
-Change some characters to Jewish (I need help to find them)
-Add some Jewish characters.

So I have some Ashkenazic names (So the t have offen change to s. Like in the patronimic "bat"). My source for the names are this page

Code:

	aschkenasen = {
		graphical_culture = germangfx
		
		color = { 0.4 0.4 0.3 }

		male_names = { 
			Aharon_Aaron Alexander_Alexander Asher Avrohom_Abraham Baruch Binyamin Chayyim Chelbo Chiyya Chizkiyahu Daniyyel_Daniel David_David Efrayim
			El'azar Eli'ezer Elyakim G'dalyyah Gershom Hillel Kalonymus Levy Machir Me'ir Menachem Meshulam Mordechay Moshe_Moses Na'aman Nosson Natronai
			Nechemya Nesan'el Peter_Peter Re'uven Shabsay Shem-Tov Shemaryahu Shim'on_Simon Shimshon Shelomo_Salomon Shemu'el_Samuel Shne'ur Simchah
			Sulam Uri Ya'akov_Jacob Yakar Yechi'el Yehoshua' Yehuda Yekusi'el Yitzchak Yo'el Yom-Tov Yosef_Joseph
		}
		female_names = {
			Anna_Anna Bele Bessel Bona_Bonne Bonafila Clara Dina_Dinah Dolza_Douce Esther_Ester Eleonore_Eleanor Ella_Helen Estelle Flora_Flora Frommet
			Gele'in Golda Gracia_Grace Guta_Guta Guthela_Guta Hanna_Anna Joayah Le'ah Madrona_Matrona Mele'a Mina_Wilhelmine Miryam_Maria Nana_Nana Ne'imah
			Oulifa_Ylva Pultzelina Rachel Rivkah Sara_Sarah Shifra Shluida Simchah Suza Tsippora Yehudis_Judith Yentil
		}

		from_dynasty_prefix = "min "
		
		male_patronym = "ben "
		female_patronym = "bas "
		prefix = yes

		modifier = default_culture_modifier

		pat_grf_name_chance = 60
		mat_grf_name_chance = 20
		father_name_chance = 10
		
		pat_grm_name_chance = 40
		mat_grm_name_chance = 20
		mother_name_chance = 30
	}

Are herew some Jewish people or peoples with interests in the Jewish history?

CrackdToothGrin · May 22, 2012

In the future, I plan on making a Jewish portrait set similar to my Cuman ones. I only need to find the pictures of Jews in the middle ages, preferably sorted by region. I will, however, make sure to make my work capable of coinciding with yours.

Thure · May 22, 2012

Ah thats would also be nice. I have ask Shaytana... But perhaps you and she can work together? Or I make two versions.

I have found this.

Thure · May 24, 2012

So. Now there are some sephardic names.

Code:

	sepharden = {
		graphical_culture = italiangfx
		
		color = { 0.4 0.3 0.4 }

		male_names = { 
			Altirenus_Altair Asher_Asher Astruc Avraham_Abraham Belam Bonafos_Bonifacius Bondia Bonisac Bonsenyor Chayyim_Chayyim Crescas David_David Davi_David
			Durant Eliyahu_Elijah Gershon_Gershom Le'on_Leo Maimun Me'ir_Meir Menachem_Menachem Micha'el_Michael Mosheh_Moses Omar_Omar Re'uven_Reuben Sha'ul_Saul
			Shelomo_Salomon Shemu'el_Samuel Vidal_Vidal Vives Ya'akov_Jacob	Yehudah_Judas Yishma'el_Ishmael Yitschak_Isaac Yose_Joseph Yosef_Joseph Zechariah_Zacharias
		}
		female_names = {
			Astruga Channa_Anna 'Esther_Ester Blanca_Blanche Bonadona Bonafila_Bonafila Dolza_Douce Miryam_Maria Regina Sarah_Sarah
		}

		from_dynasty_prefix = "min "
		
		male_patronym = "ben "
		female_patronym = "bat "
		prefix = yes

		modifier = default_culture_modifier

		pat_grf_name_chance = 60
		mat_grf_name_chance = 20
		father_name_chance = 10
		
		pat_grm_name_chance = 40
		mat_grm_name_chance = 20
		mother_name_chance = 30
	}

RedRooster81 · May 25, 2012

I would like to use what you have created to go with some events and other features that I'm working on. I don't want to integrate your mod, just write some events that would compliment it, if that would be okay. I am interested in the Sephardi and their place in Iberia and the Mediterranean, in places like Italy, Provence, etc.

unmerged(208745) · May 25, 2012

Not sure if this could help, but it's pretty detailed and names/prefixes/suffixes/patronymics are/should be very accurate.

Code:

judaic = {
    graphical_culture = muslimgfx


    sephardic = {
        graphical_culture = andalusiangfx
        
        color = { 0.4 0.6 0.3 }


        male_names = {
Mordechai David Avraham Benyamin Yonathan Yehuda Shlomo Shaul Shmuel Shimon Gavriel Daniel Emmanuel Ezekiel Itzhak Yaakov Gidon Tvika Eyal
Aviv Ohad Elad Tomer Achinoam Akiva Gil Gilad Shay Reuven Ori Pesach Meir Moshe Bar Tamir Michael Zion Amit Avishay Itamar Itay Gili Yossi
Ariel Mattithyahu Matan Elijah
        }
        female_names = {
Danielle Rita Dafna "Bat-El" Shir Sarah Tzipi Tomer Yudith Adara Agam Geula Rahel Esther Anna Rivka Gilit Bar Tamar Miri Naomi Naama 
Michal Anael Gal Norah Davida Alona Nediva Nehama Miriam Yuval Adi Yetta Yael Tikva Shirel Hila Yarin Ilana Micol Dalilah Dana Zara Nina                             Ninet Amit Keren Golda Liron Mara
        }


        from_dynasty_prefix = ""
        
        male_patronym = "ben "
        female_patronym = "bat "
        prefix = yes


        modifier = default_culture_modifier


        pat_grf_name_chance = 50
        mat_grf_name_chance = 20
        father_name_chance = 10
        
        pat_grm_name_chance = 40
        mat_grm_name_chance = 20
        mother_name_chance = 30
    }


ashkenazi = {
        graphical_culture = germangfx
        
        color = { 0.4 0.6 0.3 }


        male_names = {
Mordechai David Avraham Benyamin Yonathan Yehuda Shlomo Shaul Shmuel Shimon Gavriel Daniel Emmanuel Ezekiel Itzhak Yaakov Gidon Tvika Eyal
Aviv Ohad Elad Tomer Achinoam Akiva Gil Gilad Shay Reuven Ori Pesach Meir Moshe Bar Tamir Michael Zion Amit Avishay Itamar Itay Gili Yossi
Ariel Mattithyahu Matan Elijah
        }
        female_names = {
Danielle Rita Dafna "Bat-El" Shir Sarah Tzipi Tomer Yudith Adara Agam Geula Rahel Esther Anna Rivka Gilit Bar Tamar Miri Naomi Naama 
Michal Anael Gal Norah Davida Alona Nediva Nehama Miriam Yuval Adi Yetta Yael Tikva Shirel Hila Yarin Ilana Micol Dalilah Dana Zara Nina 
Ninet Amit Keren Golda Liron Mara
        }


        from_dynasty_prefix = ""
        
        male_patronym = "ben "
        female_patronym = "bat "
        prefix = yes


        modifier = default_culture_modifier


        pat_grf_name_chance = 50
        mat_grf_name_chance = 20
        father_name_chance = 10
        
        pat_grm_name_chance = 40
        mat_grm_name_chance = 20
        mother_name_chance = 30
    }
}

Thure · May 25, 2012

RedRooster81 said:
I would like to use what you have created to go with some events and other features that I'm working on. I don't want to integrate your mod, just write some events that would compliment it, if that would be okay. I am interested in the Sephardi and their place in Iberia and the Mediterranean, in places like Italy, Provence, etc.

That would be nice. Thank you!

Not sure if this could help, but it's pretty detailed and names/prefixes/suffixes/patronymics are/should be very accurate.

Nice list. I will see what I can do with this.

So... For Heresy: Samaritan, Karaism, Kabbalah...?

RedRooster81 · May 25, 2012

Do you have any ideas for specific or generic events and objectives concerning medieval Jewish characters? Well, anyone really? I am working on a religious tolerance law series, from autonomous religious communities to forced assimilation (probably four or five levels). At different levels, different events will be possible. During crusades, mobs could form to attack Jewish communities. I would be open to other ideas.

For anyone who knows, where can I find lists of the provinces with large Jewish populations during the period, preferably online? I know about the Iberian cities, in particular Toledo, Seville, Barcelona, but also Granada, Cordoba, Malaga, Zaragoza, Leon, actually much of Iberia. So where else would I put province modifiers for substantial Jewish communities and how large should they be? I'm not talking absolute numbers of course but small, medium, large. Thanks for any ideas.

Sleight of Hand · May 25, 2012

Wasn't there a place in Khazaria with a Jewish majority? Sorry I can't be more specific, but I know there were one or two Jewish principalities there.

Thure · May 25, 2012

Sleight of Hand said:
Wasn't there a place in Khazaria with a Jewish majority? Sorry I can't be more specific, but I know there were one or two Jewish principalities there.

That is possible. I have read about it, but im not sure...

For anyone who knows, where can I find lists of the provinces with large Jewish populations during the period, preferably online? I know about the Iberian cities, in particular Toledo, Seville, Barcelona, but also Granada, Cordoba, Malaga, Zaragoza, Leon, actually much of Iberia. So where else would I put province modifiers for substantial Jewish communities and how large should they be? I'm not talking absolute numbers of course but small, medium, large. Thanks for any ideas.

I have found this site with a lot of jewish history maps.

http://cw.routledge.com/textbooks/0415236614/resources/indi.asp

For events I have no really ideas at the moment.

unmerged(101730) · May 25, 2012

Sleight of Hand said:
Wasn't there a place in Khazaria with a Jewish majority? Sorry I can't be more specific, but I know there were one or two Jewish principalities there.

Khazaria (north of Georgia, basically) was an independent Jewish state until about a decade before the start of the game in 1066. Semien (in north-eastern Africa) was an independent Jewish kingdom at this time, and persisted until 1627 in one form or another.

CrackdToothGrin · May 25, 2012

Sleight of Hand said:
Wasn't there a place in Khazaria with a Jewish majority? Sorry I can't be more specific, but I know there were one or two Jewish principalities there.

I've seen a lot of back and forth between historians on this one, since Khazaria as a completely Jewish state just isn't supported. There was a mix of Judaism, Tengrii, Manicheaism, etc. But, Itil had a very strong Jewish adherence, and in the 8th century much of Itil's ruling class adopted a form of Judaism. Everybody else pretty much stuck to their own laws.

Akjosch said:
Semien (in north-eastern Africa) was an independent Jewish kingdom at this time, and persisted until 1627 in one form or another.

Semien, in today's Gondar, had been established within a 400-year span from the 800-1200's, and was partially conquered in the 1270's during the rise of the Christian Solomonic Emperors of Ethiopia. But did get bounced back and forth for the next four hundred years after that.

Oh, and if someone is looking- Those are provinces 620 and 883.

Evander · May 25, 2012

Khazaria was a khaganate so something close to a federation of tribes (with the Kazar tribe as the leaders, for example the Petchenegs were the main tribe in the Khazar armies ...). Khazars elite converted to Judaism to get an "international" equality with Christian and Muslim states but the others tribes were free to keep their own faith (mostly Tengrism and Islam for Petchenegs or Bulgars) so the population was never really converted to Judaism.

Sleight of Hand · May 26, 2012

What would be the best way to handle the Pechenegs? They tend to get beaten up pretty bad and pretty quickly -- would it be better to have them as a vassal of the Cuman Khanate? Has anyone tried any other ways of representing them?

RedRooster81 · May 27, 2012

Sleight of Hand said:
What would be the best way to handle the Pechenegs? They tend to get beaten up pretty bad and pretty quickly -- would it be better to have them as a vassal of the Cuman Khanate? Has anyone tried any other ways of representing them?

idk, but I have tried conquering them as Kiev back a few patches ago, and the Cumans had religious defense cb and laid waste to everything practically to the Baltic. Very scary situation.

shadow121292 · May 27, 2012

Evander said:
Khazaria was a khaganate so something close to a federation of tribes (with the Kazar tribe as the leaders, for example the Petchenegs were the main tribe in the Khazar armies ...). Khazars elite converted to Judaism to get an "international" equality with Christian and Muslim states but the others tribes were free to keep their own faith (mostly Tengrism and Islam for Petchenegs or Bulgars) so the population was never really converted to Judaism.

They've found evidence that while the tribes were allowed to decide the faith they wanted a large portion of the region did convert after viewing burial customs. There's still controversy over the exact amounts of conversion but it's starting to show that it was more then just the Khazar royal family. I would wager probably a plurality or slim majority of Khazaria was Jewish but not the entire population as if that were the case it's successors would have been Jewish kingdoms or attempts to form Jewish kingdoms.

unmerged(461736) · May 27, 2012

Languedoc (S. France) had significant Jewish populations which were tolerated along with Cathars, esp. Narbonne, Toulouse

Arcaul · May 29, 2012

The name for North African and Middle Eastern Jews is Mizrahi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews

If you include Ethiopian Jews in the mod they go by Beta Israel (another name is the Falasha Jews which is more appropriate if you ask me) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Jew

As a quick question this mod will make Jews not only part of the game but playable too right?

RedRooster81 · May 29, 2012

I would think that the Khazars would be playable, but Jews did not hold count-level titles in western Europe AFAIK. Chris King posted on why Jews were not included in the vanilla game and that was IIRC a big part of the reason. That and the problem of sustaining dynasties for characters that did not historically hold land.

In Leon some of the monarchs did employ Jewish castellans, and had Jewish councilors, including the court title chief rabbi (who was to advise the king on Jewish matters and judge over issues in which both parties were Jewish), and Alfonso the Wise had a Jewish concubine who was the object of an assassination plot that was carried out before the whole royal court.

That is not to say that you couldn't grant a Jewish character a county: I did so in DVIP as King of Castile.

Korbah · May 29, 2012

Arcaul said:
The name for North African and Middle Eastern Jews is Mizrahi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews

If you include Ethiopian Jews in the mod they go by Beta Israel (another name is the Falasha Jews which is more appropriate if you ask me) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Jew

As a quick question this mod will make Jews not only part of the game but playable too right?

NAE features playable jews in the form of beta israel/semien down in ethiopia (a titular kingdom), although it's just a religion and not a culture (still uses standard ethiopian culture).

[Mini-MOD in process] Jewish Religion and Culture

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