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A BETA-preview Barbarossa AAR

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Singleton Mosby said:
Thus, what have I learned:
- AI is capable of defending itself and attacking
- USSR Barabarossa AI behaves historical but has enough troops to succeed
- USSR is overpowerd...guess we will see a toned down version in the release
- Germany doesn't get any attack bonusses but their troops are better
- Germany is underpowered 480 vs. 1150 brigades
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About the brigade numbers - seems like German number is slightly low (but not so much) while Soviet should be about the same (approx. 500-600) available right off, then another 600 in following month from the mobilization.

Additionally, Soviet units available right off should have low STR and low ORG initially (30-50% STR, 0-20% ORG), to represent their lack of preparation and mobilized units should enter the game with similarly low ORG and STR. Voila, all the sudden everything is right.

I guess testers just focused on 1936 scenario.
 
Katarian said:
Except the stripes give more info about the province then your suggestion. One strip shows who currently controls the province, and the other stripe shows the country that actually owns that province. So using the stripes you can still see the borders of occupied Belguim, Netherlands, France, etc.. while your suggestion wouldn't show that. It actually works pretty well in EUIII.
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True, but most people playing this game could recognize the borders, name some of the rivers and probably place many towns just from memory. But, for novice players and non historical or geogrpahically minded people the stripes work well, I still don't like them though.
 
hendriks said:
"Germany is underpowered 480 vs. 1150 brigades"

That says it all, German forces should be double at least, phew, I'm glad! :)

Could you give the army overview of Germany and allies in Barbarossa scenario?
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Nah, they shouldn't. Their number seems pretty much historical, maybe off by 20-30 brigades, dunno.

See my previous post for the suggested adjustments.
 
Baneslave said:
Each country has choise to make a GiE or to be annexed.
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Not entirely true, it's been stated that outright annexation is a possibility under some conditions.

However, what's more worthwhile to point out is that Alojzy's strategy would rely on reducing National Unity to zero, which could take months, and at the same time he would have to avoid capturing IC provinces to prevent an early capitulation (and thus creation of a GiE). It's a lot of micro to get that Ploiesti oil that you'd be buying on the cheap anyway. Depending on how it works, it may be that you don't even have to pay for it (if debt incurred by Romania for buying stuff from you can be used to buy stuff from them, for example).

EDIT: By the way, I'd like the "alternative timeline AAR" where Mosby is playing as Germany to continue as well. Let's see who gets to Berlin first, AI or Mosby :p
 
Alexander Seil said:
In part whether Diplomacy is crucial depends on whether Paradox assumes that all countries would end up in the historical position without diplomatic interactions (like in HoI2) or not. For example, perhaps the Allies need to keep influencing Spain to prevent it from going Axis?
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To me the potential for getting away from "automatic" events is one of the more exciting things about HOI3. There obviously will still need to be some event-type things when something is difficult or impossible to model in the engine (although even that depends on how heavy-handed the devs want to be with laws and decisions), but for the most part I think the German player should have to work through the diplomacy at least a bit to get the Anschluss, and the American player should not just automatically choose to negotiate or not with Darlan, but should actually have to negotiate!

Heck, I would REALLY love to see those laws drive the internal behavior a bit as well. Since I am a naval history buff I'll use an example from that - the UK seriously limited new construction for the RN, and in fact strongly pushed for the elimination of BBs in the London Treaty of '36 (one reason why no one even considered signing it). Internally that took the form of the RN being very focused on building CLs and CVLs (or at least what would be considered CVLs in game terms), with a limited number of CVs thrown in. It would be great to see national laws/decisions in the '36 scenario that emphasized this outlook, so that a human player couldn't just start cranking out large BB and CV builds right away...the same type of example can easily be applied to land force builds as well.
 
Singleton Mosby said:
Hmm, perhaps you are right and I should have done that as well.

Some more pics on the air-war in the next two updates, the first will be up in a few seconds....:)
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Ahem.

Something like this?

A6653-3.jpg
 
I think it bodes well that there are multiple diplomatic and "black ops" methods of derailing the union of Austria with Germany, for example.
 
Alojzy said:
If Anchluss of Austria decision requires that, good enough, but why in god's name would I want Balcan countries join me?

I can annex them (grabbing their resources upon taking over the capital), then release, making them puppets - saving tons of money/diplomats and "upgrading" their tech level to mine. And on the top of that, I can release those I need, while leaving certain countries occupied if I need their provinces for another agressive move. In worst case, I can leave them neutral - to be fair, it's much more safe for German player to leave Italy out of Axis, it will save him trouble later on. ;)

Of course it's a gamey tactics - but if it's perfectly valid in HoI3 as well, especially considering benefits (in HoI2 it was not making my army more powerful by extra officers not more modern via new weapons, in HoI3 it does), then why not? Of course, I can roleplay, but it would be good to have better motivation then RP to keep diplomacy, espionage, R&D and officer sliders somehow balanced.
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Perhaps they don't get all your technologies if you puppet them anymore?
 
Vodka it is then good sir!

Thanks for the updates!
 
Alexander Seil said:
I think it bodes well that there are multiple diplomatic and "black ops" methods of derailing the union of Austria with Germany, for example.
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But then you will perhaps start derailing "Peace in Our Time". :eek: :eek:
We must willingly give Mr Hitler everything he asks for you know, after all the Germans are understandably upset over the Versailles Treaty and Mr Hitler sure has only peaceful intentions, no?

;)
 
480 brigades for Germany? Blimey, that IS low!
 
Alojzy said:
166 divisions (with allies!) x 3 = 498 brigades.

Pretty much spot on.

It's soviet numbers that are debatable, as they fit the number of brigades they had, but miss their combat ability somehow.
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I wonder if it's possible for Singleton to mod his version of the Beta to reduce the amount of officers the starting Soviet player would start off with.

If they were given, say 25% of their required officer corps or less, I wonder if the results in battle would be drastically different.
 
e_quality said:
But then you will perhaps start derailing "Peace in Our Time". :eek: :eek:
We must willingly give Mr Hitler everything he asks for you know, after all the Germans are understandably upset over the Versailles Treaty and Mr Hitler sure has only peaceful intentions, no?

;)
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You mean MR HILLER?

Lol... I'd love to see a scenario in which the AI goes to war over chechoslovakia (sp?)

It'll be insane.

Cheers,
Nick
 
e_quality said:
"You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out." :D

But, we're digressing dangerously OT... Let's turn back back to Mosby's USSR gentlemen!!!
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sherman was a criminal.

damn it.

but he sure knew how to end a war ^_^
 
TheLoneGunman said:
I wonder if it's possible for Singleton to mod his version of the Beta to reduce the amount of officers the starting Soviet player would start off with.

If they were given, say 25% of their required officer corps or less, I wonder if the results in battle would be drastically different.
Click to expand...

Yes, that or any way of making soviet forces weaker, while still numerous.

Anyway, I wonder what will next update bring...
 
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