Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Carthago Nova

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Braxton Approches the SGG table

Hello I'm Major Edward Braxton and I am here to tell you a few of my idea's and then you can tell me what you want. I have at the moment and Idea of having a POGG clause or a Peace Order and good government clause. Which means that every thing the governemnt does must be done in the interest of peace order and good government. This can be protected by the high court defining what POGG clause is. This clause if implement will allow governemnt law invailed if the law is seen by the high court as a law that goes agains Peace order and Good Government.
 
The_Hawk said:
Van Ewen shares a glance with her comrades. "The ECLU is not a supporter of the monarchy, Per von Hapsburg. A monarch can only serve to restrict the ability of the people to determine for themselves how they choose to be ruled, which is the basis of all other rights and freedoms we enjoy.

"As for the other things you mentioned -- well, I imagine everyone will favor the right to peaceably assemble after the Levarge years. But tell me, what do you consider the limits of the right to privacy?"
Click to expand...

I believe the government cannot invade people's privacy without having a warrant, or probable cause, as it is harrassment. We do not want our beaureaucrats eating out the substance of the people.

On the monarchy, then, we can agree to disagree."
 
"Well, Per Mycroft, though ROTC programs continue, the military spent many years as a dangerous and unpleasant occupation, which reduced their popularity. Certainly they could use some support, but after Levarge's reforms our need for more soldiers has been substantially reduced. We're interested mostly in improving life for those who remain, and for our veterans. And, as I say, Levarge was good for us in that regard -- he got us new and fewer ships which we can actually supply with parts, so conditions in the Navy have improved quite a lot since the Cuban conflict."

* * *​

The DEE representatives seem quite pleased by their favorite son's plans. "That all sounds fine, Per President. We'll be interested to hear your legislative agenda when we get closer to having elections."

* * *​

Van Ewen shrugs. "I suppose so, Per von Hapsburg." The ECLU representatives turn to greet former President Al'Aeshir, and von Hapsburg gets the impression he has been dismissed.

Van Ewen invites Amric to sit. "Well, Per President, when Hawkton Tilly and the folks at the Bar Association were drafting the Eutopian Charter of Rights, they were forced to compromise on a number of points to assure passage. The ECR could be strengthened any number of ways -- say, a guarantee of state-funded counsel, just to pick one example.

"I'm not sure I agree with your premise, though, that great respect for individual rights lead to anarchy. After all, the state's protection of individual rights is the basic necessity that allows that individual to participate fully in the democratic process."

* * *​

The SGG representative greets Braxton. "Well, Major, that sounds fine... in theory. But what happens when we get a High Court that tells us that, say, public health or insurance services are outside the scope of 'peace, order, and good government', even though the executive has approved them in the budget and it's been signed off on by the legislature? In other words, what business does the least representative branch of government have telling the most representative branches what their business is?"
 
The DEE representatives seem quite pleased by their favorite son's plans. "That all sounds fine, Per President. We'll be interested to hear your legislative agenda when we get closer to having elections."

"I can understand that, indeed. I appreciate you taking the time to see me."

* * *

Van Ewen shrugs. "I suppose so, Per von Hapsburg." The ECLU representatives turn to greet former President Al'Aeshir, and von Hapsburg gets the impression he has been dismissed.

Van Ewen invites Amric to sit. "Well, Per President, when Hawkton Tilly and the folks at the Bar Association were drafting the Eutopian Charter of Rights, they were forced to compromise on a number of points to assure passage. The ECR could be strengthened any number of ways -- say, a guarantee of state-funded counsel, just to pick one example.

"I'm not sure I agree with your premise, though, that great respect for individual rights lead to anarchy. After all, the state's protection of individual rights is the basic necessity that allows that individual to participate fully in the democratic process."

"I believe I didn't make myself terribly clear. I apologize for that. As for the Charter of Rights, I was also somewhat involved in that project as well. I agree that there were some things that could be improved upon.

As for great respect of individual rights, I respect individual rights, but there is a fine line there.

OOC: To be continued...

As I was saying......"Clear throat," An individual may BELIEVE he has the right to steal. Another may BELIEVE he has the right to hunt down the first individual and punish him. That route leads to anarchy. Where anyone can do anything regardless of consequences. Yes, I suppose it COULD work if everyone wanted to accept the consequences of their own actions and willingly accepted them. But it wouldn't work. You'd get feuds between families. Individual rights have to be tempered with common sense and the central laws that govern ALL of us.

I believe that there should be just cause for a search warrant. There should be freedom of religion<regardless of what kind you practice, as long as sacrificing humans or creatures are not involved>, freedom of speech and assembly, freedom of the press, things of that nature. I believe it is a dangerous road to trod on allowing 'blanket' freedom though. I think government SHOULD keep their nose out of people's lives. But that same government MUST be capable of enacting and enforcing laws that are for the greater good of all Eutopians, so that every person can revel and enjoy in their individual freedoms."
 
Last edited:
O'Floinn arranges a meeting with SGG representatives.

"As you know, I've always been for responsible government. When I was President, I replaced inactive cabinet ministers, and in more recent times, I stepped up when the Assembly needed revitalization. Now, I am here to let you know my plans, and see if they are plans that you can support.

"I'm thinking of some legislation that would empower the High Court to summon members of the legislative and executive branches for questioning. Of course, the questions would have to be about actions taken in an official capacity. Meaning personal information that isn't public knowledge would be off-limits. The Commissioner of Justice would witness the proceedings, and publish a report. A similar act involving members of the military is possible, but it will require some subtle reworking.

"In essence, is this the type of thing you're hoping to see in the next administration?"
 
Garibaldi meets with representatives of the RF.

"Good evening, pers and noble sirs. I have come to reassure your foundation of my commitment to continue in the footsteps of my late father in attempting to restore the monarchy to its rightful place."

He coughed.

"I'm not on very good terms with Maria of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Blade!, the self-styled queen, but she hates anyone whom does not endorse her illegal claims to the throne."

He raised his brow as he spoke.

"If His Majesty had changed the succession laws before his demise, then certainly it would be possible for a queen to ascend to the throne, but as we all know this did not happen. An American-styled presidency is a terrible option, and I am dedicated to seeing that this does not come to pass. I hope that my credentials are such that I can count on your support."
 
Stile van Ewen adjusts her glasses and smiles. "And where do you feel that line lies, Per President?"

* * *​

The Brigadier nods. "We're happy to hear that there are politicians out there looking out for our fighting men and women. Good luck, Mr. Mycroft."

* * *​

"I'm not sure, Per President," says the SGG representative. "What limitations did you have in mind on the High Court? How will the people be guaranteed that the Court won't simply be demanding an accounting of the other branches out of spite or personal animosity?"

* * *​

The Royal Foundation representative smiles tolerantly, but not too tolerantly. "You must be confused, Mr.... ah... Garibaldi. Queen Maria is a Saxe-Coburg-Gotha; her daughter, Queen Francesca of Tilapia, is of the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Blade! line.

He rubs his hands together pensively. "As for the legality... ah... question, I think you must come to grips with the fact that Queen Maria is the Queen. She claimed the throne decades ago, and the other potential heirs yielded their claims at that time. There simply are no other candidates available." He folds his hands. "And so, ah, Mr. Garibaldi, we seem to be at odds. Maria is our Queen."
 
"Then I suppose we shall be at odds, sadly. Legality means everything. If I were the only person in the world to claim the throne of Sweden, that would not make me the rightful King of Sweden. Salic law prohibits her right to the throne, and she herself stated at the convention that there can be monarchy in Eutopia without her being the monarch."

Garibaldi smirked.

"But, don't get me wrong, I'm still a monarchist. I'd simply advocate the throne remain vacant until someone who has a legal claim would decide to enforce it. You may have a queen, but I have no queen, because Eutopia cannot legally have one."
 
"It's an empty throne that can never be filled, Mr. Garibaldi," the Royal Foundation representative says smugly. "We prefer the Queen we've got. Good day." The Foundation representatives return to their private conversation.
 
Braxton still talking to the SGG people

What I mean is that the powers the governemnt has to make laws is still with in it's juristircition but the POGG clause makes sure that the actions the governemtn takes are doing in the interest of the nation. The High court will work by seeing wether the laws which are passed are applable with in the context of POGG clause then if they do find it a breeching the POGG clause they take action.
 
Admiral Henry J. Tulp enters Carthago Nova. Everyone can recongnise him, not only because if his hook on his leftarm but also because he was wearing his Admirals Uniform.

He approaches the Brigadier in representing the AFSF and salutes.

"Goodevening, I am Admiral Henry J. Tulp and I would like to talk with you about our men and woman in the Military. Would that be possible?"
 
Getting nowhere with the AFSF, he bids a polite Adeui, and promises to return to further discuss this matter. He then shifts to the table where the leaders of the Eutopian Firearms Association is sitting. He looks each in the eye, as is his custom, and speaks,

Good afternoon, Gentlemen. I am Colonel Harrison William Bradstreet. I have come to discuss what I can do for you, especially in the Convention Hall and further into the political future.
 
Stile van Ewen adjusts her glasses and smiles. "And where do you feel that line lies, Per President?"

OOC: T Hawk, I had been hoping I could get back to that...I did, but posted it in the original post.
 
Von Hapsburg to the SGG;

"We need transparency in our government. Just say what needs to be done, and I will do it to the best of my abilities.
 
"You raise a valid point. I have not fully decided on the best system to check the Court on this matter. I am considering several, including observors from other branches, or perhaps even approval from the uninvolved branch. By approval, I mean that if the Court wished to question a member of the executive, they would first get the 'permission' of the legislature by means a majority vote.

"The point of this bill is to create greater governmental transparency, not to promote a struggle between the branches. Thus, if I was unable to find to a suitable system to maintain a balance of sorts, I would withdraw the proposal.

"My point is that I am aiming to make officials more accountable, so we don't have another Truman-esque scandal. I'm hoping to have a few specific proposals ready to be revealed during the next election campaign."
 
"Certainly we want to see the government passing constitutional laws, Major, but I'm not sure we need a specific clause for that purpose; it's a basic premise of a constitutional democracy. But certainly, pursue it if you wish."

* * *​

The Brigadier looks a little put out at Colonel Bradstreet leaving with a question still on the table, but shrugs it off and welcomes Admiral Tulp to the table. "A pleasure to see you, Admiral. How have you been? What would you like to discuss?"

* * *​

"A pleasure to meet you, Colonel," says the EFA representative. "Well, of course, our primary interest is to see the right to bear arms enshrined more permanently in the laws of the land, even the Constitution if possible. A man or woman cannot defend themselves against those who would violate the law if the law does not enshrine their right to do so. And what is more crucial in a society such as ours than the right to bodily integrity and personal property?"

* * *​

Van Ewen frowns. "You're a fine politician, Per President, but frankly you haven't told me where you stand on anything, or answered my question. We're not talking about what people might believe they have a right to, we're talking about what rights are actually enshrined in the document being drafted, and it is the position of the ECLU that maximizing civil rights under a democratic form of government is the best way to guarantee that the people get the administration they want."

* * *​

The SGG representatives seem a little confused. "Well, Per von Hapsburg, we'll be happy to hear any ideas you might have in mind..."

* * *​

"We still have some concerns, Per President," says the SGG representative, "but we look forward to hearing your specific proposals during the campaign. Good luck."
 
Tulp smiled.

"I have been fine I guess, worked alot past months but that's the job eh? Anyway I wanted you and the AFSF to know that I'm going to get myself a bit more involved in politics and I would like to have your support for it. I have some plans myself. I want one or two days a year to be a free day for everyone. The first would be Commemoration Day, to honour all those that died in service of our nation in times of war and in times of peace. The Second Day would be a Veterans day to honour those that served our nation. This should make the people more aware of what the Military has done for them and especially the Veterans.

I will also try to do some preventive work to make sure we never get in the same dire situation as before the embargoe was lifted. The Military should have a sufficient buffer of spare parts so that we will not lose that many people because of mechanical problems. Do you have any other ideas?"
 
The Colonel smiles,

Of course, sir. I too, believe that the Right to Bear Arms is a crucial part of our society, and am currently working to enshrine this right in the Constitution. Now down to business. In return for your support in my future political career, I pledge to not only seek to maintain these rights, but also enact Legislation which would repeal laws which curb these rights.
 
Roger Forbes walked from his restaurant, which was adjacent to Carthago Nova, to meet representatives of the EFA. He tried to hide his face somewhat, as he was in great competition with Carthago Nova's owner over their restaurants.

"Hello, gentlemen, I was wondering if you were looking for someone to champion one or two articles in the constitution ensuring the rights of Eutopians to own and handle firearms. Perhaps you would provide funding for my business in exchange for me introducing and supporting such an idea?"

OOC note: Yes, I am aware the Hawkeye/the Colonel has already talked to the EFA about the same thing, but Forbes is not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back