Gavelkind and two kingdoms confusion

[Iorwerth]

Quick question. My current ruler is King of Galacia and King of Leon, both having gavelkind succession laws. I have three sons. At the moment it is telling me one son (the oldest) will inherit one kingdom and the second son will inherit the other, with the third son inheriting the country of leon, the capital of the kingdom of Leon. This is confusing me slightly. I presumed that each kingdom would follow its own law, so wouldn't the kingdom title under gavelkind (the highest title on offer for that kingdom) go the oldest son for both kingdoms i.e. the gavelkind succession in Galacia would make the first son heir, and the gavelkind succession law in Leon would also give the kingdom title to the first son? That is not what is happening so far as I can see, with the first son getting the kingdom of Leon and the second son getting the kingdom of Galacia - lt seems the gavelkind succession is not being run by each kingdom independently, but rather merged into one mega gavelkind inheritance

I also looked to see if I could turn one of the kingdoms to primogeniture, but I need to have the law late feudal or imperial admin. This might be possible in Leon, if I try and get a lot of favours (the whole council seems to be against!), but In Galacia, which is an hereditary despotic kingdom, there aren't any laws available to change to late feudal, even if I wanted (at least so far as I can see) as there is no council. I started off as king of Leon if that makes a difference, and then pressed my strong claim to Galacia to win it.

I am not saying there is anything wrong, just that I am confused by it all. Can anyone help educate me to where I am going wrong and what I should be doing to try and sort out the situation?

 

[bulldog98]

Turn your second kingdom to primogeniture, then your first son will inherit both kingdoms.

 

[Stepina]

Destroy the second kingdom title then your other 2 sons will be vassal's of your first

 

[DPS]

Destroy the second kingdom title then your other 2 sons will be vassal's of your first

You can't destroy titles under gavelkind, so that won't work.

Better advice: conquer a third kingdom and form an empire--the empire won't split, but each son will get a kingdom.

 

[Red Death]

From a game design perspectie this is indeed fully intended, gavelkind inheritance splits all gavelkind titles accross your children. So, breaking up of large realms is the expected norm (with exceptions) at the start of the game before tech advances far enough to allow late feudal administration. My advice: don't fight/game it too much, I've found it's more fun to just go with it.

The law choice should definitely be there though, since it has nothing to do with the council, where are you looking? It should be under realm laws.

 

[Stupidity]

If you are Catholic and close to your natural demise, you don't need succession law change. Just pick one for succession and disqualify the rest by naming them to be bishops. Bribe the pope or enact free investiture.

 

[MK1980]

I also looked to see if I could turn one of the kingdoms to primogeniture, but I need to have the law late feudal or imperial admin. This might be possible in Leon, if I try and get a lot of favours (the whole council seems to be against!), but In Galacia, which is an hereditary despotic kingdom, there aren't any laws available to change to late feudal, even if I wanted (at least so far as I can see) as there is no council. I started off as king of Leon if that makes a difference, and then pressed my strong claim to Galacia to win it.

I am not saying there is anything wrong, just that I am confused by it all. Can anyone help educate me to where I am going wrong and what I should be doing to try and sort out the situation?

the administration law is for the whole realm. you don't have to change it for every title separately. same for the council - there's 1 council for your whole realm, not one for every title you hold.

if you can change it to late feudal, you can switch the kingdoms to primo (if you held them for at least 10 years and all your direct count+ vassals have positive opinion and there is no internal or external war going on).

if you can't get late feudal law passed, you may still be able to change the succession law of the 2nd kingdom (galicia) to anything other than gavelkind so you can destroy the title and avoid realm split

 

[junassa]

If you are Catholic and close to your natural demise, you don't need succession law change. Just pick one for succession and disqualify the rest by naming them to be bishops. Bribe the pope or enact free investiture.

Isn't this dangerous? What happens if you do this and your heir gets sick and dies without producing his heir?

 

[shiro the bushi]

Isn't this dangerous? What happens if you do this and your heir gets sick and dies without producing his heir?

it is and isnt, if all of your sons are young or unmarried without kids its a bad move.
If your oldest already has kids

 

[Iorwerth]

Thanks for all the advice. In the end it split. I tried to pass Late feudal but the council voted against - I wasn't very popular and couldn't buy enough votes

The Bishop thing sounds interesting - I might try that at some point. Gavelkind is hard to keep conquests together, so the Empire route sounds a good way to go. Unfortunately for me, consumption took my ruler before he could finish off his empire plan!

 

[arrasas]

As I understand it, when you have more then one top most tier title, inheritance laws for those titles apply inside those titles (meaning how dukedoms and any counties not under dukedoms get inherited). But not when inheriting those titles. For inheriting those titles inheritance law of your PRIMARY title apply.

In this case I suppose your primary title is king of Galicia.

 

[andersonm]

Also consider that if your dynasty is spread out with multiple kingdoms and you can't get an Empire yet you can switch one over to Senority succession. It will tend to reunify the titles over time, when you have control of both again you can then switch the other to Seniority and have them synced until you get an Empire or Primogeniture.

 

[DPS]

Senority has a few downsides. First, it can take a long time to reunite your old lands by inheritance, and someone outside your dynasty might come to own them in the meantime, Second, you'll most likely have a string of elderly rulers whose educations you may have had no control over whatsoever. And finally, because your rulers will be taking over as old men, you can have problems getting on of them to last the 10 years necessary to change your inheritance law again.

 

[Metz77]

If you're fairly popular and have decent heirs, Elective could work as a short term fix while you work on getting primogeniture. There's some major risk involved there, though.

Another possibility would be to grant your eldest the kingdom title he isn't heir to; he'd go independent, but they'd reunite after your death.

 

[Blackwhitecavias]

As I believe Galicia is smaller than Leon a way to deal with this without too much hassle would be to just fill up your semester with countries in Leon and then a single poor county in Galicia and then just fight a war for your claim on Galicia after succession , as you would then have a big personal levy, while he would have almost no armies, a problem with this would be that he will hate you for a while, but that is easily solved by keeping him in a prison for a while (if you also imprison the third Son you can also use your claim to freely revoke his county)

 

[Serenity84]

If you're fairly popular and have decent heirs, Elective could work as a short term fix while you work on getting primogeniture. .

In small realms it's also possible to monopolize the elector titles. For example if it's just you and one other duke your vote is the tie-breaker. So you get to pick your heir

 

[Metz77]

In small realms it's also possible to monopolize the elector titles. For example if it's just you and one other duke your vote is the tie-breaker. So you get to pick your heir

Especially true if the other duke is your desired heir.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Also consider that if your dynasty is spread out with multiple kingdoms and you can't get an Empire yet you can switch one over to Senority succession. It will tend to reunify the titles over time, when you have control of both again you can then switch the other to Seniority and have them synced until you get an Empire or Primogeniture.

Frankly Elective Monarchy is better for that, especially for Leon/Galicia. You can vote for any de jure Duke and/or title claimant. Aka your brothers who split from you. Allows you to bypass pitfalls mentioned above, though in this case you also have little say in education.

I am talking about post split of course. Actually might also recommend it pre split, at least until you have access to Primo or ultimo.

 

[Vincenzo_667]

Personally I'd try to destroy the second kingdom title and just rule over the territory as a duchy (you'd have to change succesion laws to not-gavelkind first). The other best option is to grant the other title to the best suitable close relative of your dynasty and forge an alliance with him.

 

[faiuwle]

Do you have any dukes in de jure León and Galicia? If you have one or zero dukes in both kingdoms, just switch both to elective and vote for whoever you want. There will be no one else in the kingdom who has a vote, so it's the best succession law in that case.