Chinese Cheese - A Ming AAR

[sjones25]

Ha ha, France got annexed by Lithuania! :rofl: I love it! I always enjoy watching France die.

 

[PrawnStar]

Sorry, i still don't get why you want to sell the regions away with missionaries so that they convert to animism? Aren't you confucian or similar?

He's trying to make the world both Hindu and ChiHan. To do the cultural conversions he needs the provinces to become pagan first. By giving a province with an active missionary to a pagan country when the conversion happens it will be to a pagan faith. Later once reclaimed by Ming that province can be converted again, this time changing both religion and culture.

 

[Profane]

He's trying to make the world both Hindu and ChiHan. To do the cultural conversions he needs the provinces to become pagan first. By giving a province with an active missionary to a pagan country when the conversion happens it will be to a pagan faith. Later once reclaimed by Ming that province can be converted again, this time changing both religion and culture.

and here i thought he was going for a cheesy outlook on his empire, as in a very big block of cheese with holes in it !:rofl:

 

[kebzero]

FEEDBACK​

No, not Finland!

Yes, do Persia instead!

No WC without a nixed Finland. It's a surprise they showed up in the first place.

cologne , gone , finland , OPMized , austria ... still pretty big and will need a lot of wars to annex
persia finished her work ^^ good
they are integrated back into the evil chinese empire

Persia did their job well enough... but the experiment is far from done.

Quite a pathetic end for France, they didn´t event get taken out by you!

Roaring success on the Persia experiment. This should make converting Europe much easier.

When I noticed France was a vasal, I figured I might as well let them die that way.

Great job with the "Persian Trick". Makes me eager to try it!

It works wonders, and there are ways to make it work even better. Took me a while to realize that.

Sorry, i still don't get why you want to sell the regions away with missionaries so that they convert to animism? Aren't you confucian or similar?

As Turrosh Mak and PrawnStar explains, I sell provinces with missionaries to create 'animist seeds' in western Europe.

Ha ha, France got annexed by Lithuania! :rofl: I love it! I always enjoy watching France die.

It would have been more fun if they got diploannexed by Orleanais or something, but Lithuania will do.

and here i thought he was going for a cheesy outlook on his empire, as in a very big block of cheese with holes in it !:rofl:

There shalt be no holes... at least not in 1820. Preferably not in 1770, to get cores on every province.

 

[kebzero]

Part 80 - Grinding Austria

The adventurers in southern Africa sends back some giant eggs from a large, flightless bird. Omelettes are made and served to our traditional dining guests.


Chinese-Horde Exotic Eateries Soothing Efforts (CHEESE): 78


May 9th, 1670 - Salamanca is force-converted to animism.

The sea route through to Suez is cleared.

The time has come. Austrian lands are rather expensive, but we do secure their Baltic coastline and the two CoTs there, we cut off their border with Milan and the Polish heartland, and we try to block them off from northern Germany. However, our troops merely reposition rather than go home...

And this is why Wurzburgians celebrate their Dependence Day on July 4th, starting in 1670.

Instant sieging, instant fun.

Even better; states you funded the independence of, are completely unable to fight you when the time comes, save through attrition.


August 3rd, 1670 - Karaman is force-converted to animism.

Cleves is left alive, curiously enough. The main reason is simply that in the post-1650 world, annexing liliputs cost much more BadBoy, and even with the Oirat missions it takes a while to bring down that number.


November 7th, 1670 - Bithynia is force-converted to animism.

For similar reasons, Hesse is left alive.

Bavaria too is left with a reprieve.


April 2nd, 1671 - Sirt is force-converted to animism.

The German Pope is also humililated.


June 20th, 1671 - Burgos is force-converted to animism.

Wurzburg is trimmed down to size.

Bratwurst and beer all around!


Chinese-Horde Exotic Eateries Soothing Efforts (CHEESE): 79


July 31st, 1671 - Caceres is force-converted to animism.


August 10th, 1671 - Mocha is force-converted to animism.

The pirates pestering Zanzibar are dealt with.


November 6th, 1671 - Navarra is force-converted to animism.

Finland, rather than being forced to surrender cores, is wiped out.

This would be why. It should now be a little easier to pick fights with Austria.


Decenber 13th, 1671 - Madrid is force-converted to animism.

At long last, our next slider move is due. Towards Narrowminded for more missionaries, definitely. We ought to get one more slider move before the end, and that should be a duplicate of this. Some stability is lost in the process; no big deal.


January 7th, 1672 - Olonets is force-converted to shamanism.


February 21st, 1672 - Sana'a is force-converted to animism.


October 6th, 1672 - Provence is force-converted to animism.


October 22nd, 1672 - Delta is force-converted to animism.


November 29th, 1672 - Alexandria is force-converted to animism.


December 4th, 1672 - Qatar is force-converted to animism.


February 2nd, 1673 - Pirineo is force-converted to animism.

Austria Redux.

Finally, the alliance leader.

With that, we pick our next target. February 4th, 1673, Ming attacks Mainz.

 

[sjones25]

we pick our next target. February 4th, 1673, Ming attacks Mainz.

You almost have to feel sorry for the Austrians. Who will be the alliance leader this time? Mainz?

 

[sprites]

austria

 

[unmerged(170762)]

Great AAR!, I also enjoyed the Teuton one!!

Based on your observations what would you say is the behaviour of the AI regarding money spending? specially in regards to placing missionaries...

You mentioned that they spend in a particular order... like building armies and factories first... couldn't this be circumvented by "encouraging" the AI to build what we want --> missionaries

I also recall you saying something about the Narrowminded and Serfdom sliders... do you think sliders have something to do with the likeness of the AI to send missionaries?

In that case why not use the new world Pagans as pet seeders? they are full narrowminded and serfdom, for some reason their tech doesn't go above 0 (at least from the screenies showing the poorest and most backwards countries, they were at 0 while everybody was in the twenties tech-wise...) so they won't be able to build improvements since they don't have any to build, they won't build ships since their tech group forbids them to (and thus avoid bankruptcy-by-navy)... so their only expenditure would be army and maintenance and missionaries and maintenace... or maybe I'm missing something??

 

[unmerged(71062)]

Biggest problem with that strategy is that then they build terrible new world units, which means that you'd have to take on more of the policing rebel-wise, and I'm sure there's already enough of that to make you want to die. Plus, if you're relying on pagans to convert all the islands the wavefront cant reach, having a navy might come in handy.

Actually, the incredibly weak units could come in handy when its the animist rebels you need, but if its a nationalist uprising you'd need troops handy to intervene.

I'm not really familiar with how the vassal-releasing process works, but if it involves changes to sliders at all, once you start seeding, its possible for the pagan to westernize and become able to build more buildings (though still not ships). Kebzero, have your pagans been able to do any westernization?

 

[kebzero]

FEEDBACK​

You almost have to feel sorry for the Austrians. Who will be the alliance leader this time? Mainz?

Austria deserves no better than France or Milan... As for alliance leader - not Mainz.

austria

Given that Austria has no standing forces, it is unlikely they become alliance leader, despite being a huge country.

Great AAR!, I also enjoyed the Teuton one!!

Based on your observations what would you say is the behaviour of the AI regarding money spending? specially in regards to placing missionaries...

You mentioned that they spend in a particular order... like building armies and factories first... couldn't this be circumvented by "encouraging" the AI to build what we want --> missionaries

I also recall you saying something about the Narrowminded and Serfdom sliders... do you think sliders have something to do with the likeness of the AI to send missionaries?

In that case why not use the new world Pagans as pet seeders? they are full narrowminded and serfdom, for some reason their tech doesn't go above 0 (at least from the screenies showing the poorest and most backwards countries, they were at 0 while everybody was in the twenties tech-wise...) so they won't be able to build improvements since they don't have any to build, they won't build ships since their tech group forbids them to (and thus avoid bankruptcy-by-navy)... so their only expenditure would be army and maintenance and missionaries and maintenace... or maybe I'm missing something??

As best as I can tell, the AI will build whatever it can, if it has the money - and any sort of building takes priority to placing missionaries. Ryukyu is more than happy to build their army and navy far beyond their support limit and then mint some 15-20% of their budget to support it, based on 'sneak peeks' I've done from time to time.

The sliders are definitely important - if for no other reason that a Pagan nation can only get missionaries if they're at least one move towards Narrowminded, or take the Divine Supremacy national idea. There are not many AI nations that have DS as their first or second idea pick. Some pagans, like the Aztec, have it as their second, but since they'll never reach Govt 9... it's sort of beside the point.

New World pagans could be used as seeders, this much is true - but there are problems with that too. For one, you'd have to protect their territory, which is doable enough as long as the most likely rebel type is not loyal to you (i.e. Hindu rebels). There might be a problem getting them to accept the land without the ability to build a navy - I didn't try. Ryukyu went 'very unlikely' in the best case scenarios, I don't know how a New World pagan with no navy would respond.

Biggest problem with that strategy is that then they build terrible new world units, which means that you'd have to take on more of the policing rebel-wise, and I'm sure there's already enough of that to make you want to die. Plus, if you're relying on pagans to convert all the islands the wavefront cant reach, having a navy might come in handy.

Actually, the incredibly weak units could come in handy when its the animist rebels you need, but if its a nationalist uprising you'd need troops handy to intervene.

I'm not really familiar with how the vassal-releasing process works, but if it involves changes to sliders at all, once you start seeding, its possible for the pagan to westernize and become able to build more buildings (though still not ships). Kebzero, have your pagans been able to do any westernization?

I protected most of Ryukyu's possessions throughout this game - after they got most of Japan cored, they became more or less self-sufficient - at least east of Africa. Last I checked, they had still not gotten the sea route to Europe; I'm not sure how the map spread works for them now that I'm out of their tech group.

As for the rebel strength... I'd actually much rather have a strong rebel force, since they're less likely to take casualties. I need as many rebels as at all possible, for the larger their stack is, the easier it is to push around the map and convert multiple provinces per stack. I understand this has become much harder in the most recent beta patches, though.

I don't believe vassal-release affects the sliders. If the nation existed before, it retains those slider settings. If it's a new nation, it picks from the base game files - at least that's how I think it works; I've never tested this.

I'm sure AI Pagans could westernize... if they ever bothered to move the sliders towards that. In my experience, no AI ever prioritizes moving towards Innovative. The only AI nation I've ever seen westernizing is Granada, provided they're left alive to do so.

 

[kebzero]

Part 81 - Munching Minors

With promises of a vast number of barrels filled with salted fish, the Oirats happily endorse the Ming campaign in Europe. Now, to clear the shipping lanes to Iceland and go good on our promises...


Chinese-Horde Exotic Eateries Soothing Efforts (CHEESE): 80

Flanders takes charge.


February 25th, 1673 - Anatolia is force-converted to animism.


March 24th, 1673 - Gabes is force-converted to animism.


April 26th, 1673 - Castilla La Vieja is force-converted to animism.

The first barrelful of fish are shipped to China.

Meissen folds early, saving us a diplomat.


September 11th, 1673 - Nile is force-converted to animism.


October 3rd, 1673 - Asyut is force-converted to animism.


November 6th, 1673 - Barcelona is force-converted to animism.


December 30th, 1673 - Leon is force-converted to animism.

Mainz is gone.


January 3rd, 1674 - Avignon is force-converted to animism.


January 13th, 1674 - Thrace is force-converted to animism.


January 25th, 1674 - Konya is force-converted to animism.

As is Wurzburg.

More salted fish and some fresh glacier water down from Tibet contents the Oirats.


Chinese-Horde Exotic Eateries Soothing Efforts (CHEESE): 81


After the pirates of Tabouk are gone, our campaign can continue unabated.

Pampas, invaded by peasant cattle and their livestock.


November 15th, 1674 - Dauphine is force-converted to animism.

Tabouk, cleared.


November 30th, 1674 - Antalya is force-converted to animism.


...we'll pass into 1675 in silence. No special update. We'll reach 1700 soon enough anyway.


February 1st, 1675 - Alicante is force-converted to animism.

Austria is further downsized.

Alliance leader Flanders is robbed of a coastline.

Milan has endured, but not for much longer. Since they would not unite Italy, Ming will do it for them. February 16th, 1675 is the beginning of the end.

This war is over as soon as it starts, really.

I find this sort of thing a bit amusing. Animist rebels are happily sieging a Catholic province, which causes the Catholics to rise up... and help them convert their Catholic province to Animism.

There are only two real problems - if I have to 'push' the stacks to convince the animists to go where I want them, the Catholics would make the fight harder and more bloody. In addition, if the Catholic army leader has a better Maneuver rating, the next siege will be a Catholic siege, not an Animist one.

A double-edged sword, to be true - but in Piedmont's case... those animists weren't numerous enough to actually siege the province. The Catholic rebels made it a sure thing.

Alpercatas is flooded with poor peasants wanting out of Europe.


June 11th, 1675 - Orel is force-converted to shamanism.


January 20th, 1676 - Vyazma is force-converted to shamanism.


February 24th, 1676 - Murcia is force-converted to animism.


April 11th, 1676 - Smyrna is force-converted to animism.


May 26th, 1676 -Burgas is force-converted to animism.


June 2nd, 1676 - Kholm is force-converted to shamanism.

Ukraine meets oblivion.

Promises of fine Irish Whiskey loosens the golden Oirat tongues.


Chinese-Horde Exotic Eateries Soothing Efforts (CHEESE): 82


August 6th, 1676 - Piedmont is force-converted to animism. We thank the Catholic zealots for the help with sieging their own Level 4 fort.

It doesn't take long for the crates to find their way to their new owners.

 

[whitesoxfan]

Will you unite the world by 1770?

 

[MizarNX]

Catholic zealots helping the animists... the pope will surely excommunicate them!

An animist Piedimont will surely provide good stacks of animist rebels for the cause!

 

[Profane]

Kebzero's Cheesy oirat food menu previews !

I suspect item no 25 of being the reason for the demise of chinese rulers !

 

[Vesimir]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm...... Chocolate puke....

 

[kebzero]

FEEDBACK​

Will you unite the world by 1770?

I hope to, but that depends on how fast the pagan wavefronts cross Europe. I fear I might have to re-release some pagan vassal to help in the conversion process even after 1770.

Catholic zealots helping the animists... the pope will surely excommunicate them!

An animist Piedimont will surely provide good stacks of animist rebels for the cause!

For some reason, the Pope doesn't have too much influence anymore... You'd think he'd catch on after 150 years of Catholic Crusades on Hindu Ming.

As for Piedmont helping - keep in mind that a high-fort province needs greater rebel potential to even spawn one. This is why it's a good idea to build level two and three forts in the New World... You'll never have rebellions that can actually do something.

Kebzero's Cheesy oirat food menu previews !

I suspect item no 25 of being the reason for the demise of chinese rulers !

..egads... Yes, always fear the hot noodle.

 

[kebzero]

Part 82 - The Return of Denmark​

January 7th, 1677 - Smolensk is force-converted to shamanism.


January 20th, 1677 - Vlaandern is force-converted to animism.


March 25th, 1677 - Badajoz is force-converted to animism.


March 28th, 1677 - Pskov is force-converted to shamanism.

Austria's way into oblivion is a long and winding one.

Milan is at their end, though.

Of course, war is good for business. The Emperor hastily pushes on, Brunswick this time. As of April 16th, 1677, this little state is at war with the Netherlands, so their usual guarantees won't kick in.

Not exactly the most intimidating adversary at this stage.


April 24th, 1677 - edirne is force-converted to animism.

Brie and Camembert are offered in return for the Oirats' usual services.


Chinese-Horde Exotic Eateries Soothing Efforts (CHEESE): 83


Artois will not be saved, though. We need those animist rebels alive.

More pioneers arrive in South America.


September 19th, 1677 - Andalucia is force-converted to animism.


October 11th, 1677 - Artois is force-converted to animism.

...and that's that.


March 9th, 1678 - Rhodes is force-converted to animism.


March 31st, 1678 - Armagnac is force-converted to animism.

Scandinavia collapses, and Denmark reappears in Fyn and Jylland. Funny thing is, since Sjælland is Animist, so is their re-formed country. Fyn is still Sunni thanks to the Ottoman invasion some centuries past.


July 15th, 1678 - Bursa is force-converted to animism.

Oddly enough, Scandinavia white-peaces them. This suits Emperor Zhengde II just fine; war is declared on August 25th, 1678.


January 3rd, 1679 - La Mancha is force-converted to animism.


January 10th, 1679 - Toulouse is force-converted to animism.


January 26th, 1679 - Ayrshire is force-converted to animism.


April 7th, 1679 - Majerteen is force-converted to animism.


May 17th, 1679 - Libya is force-converted to animism.

This unexpected turn of events must be taken advantage of, though... Denmark is thus made a vassal.

What else could we serve the Oirats at this occasion than a big bag of Danishes?


August 3rd, 1679 - Roussillon is forc-converted to animism.


August 25th, 1679 - Berbera is force-converted to animism.


September 22nd, 1679 - Lisboa is force-converted to animism.


September 28th, 1679 - Almeria is force-converted to animism.

Norway is heavily reduced.


December 8th, 1679 - Northumberland is force-converted to animism.


January 7th, 1680 - Kargah is force-converted to animism.

Kargah is obviously not spared the animist wave, so our mission reverts to the default.


January 24th, 1680 - Girona is force-converted to animism.


February 2nd, 1680 - Bulgaria is force-converted to animism.


February 20th, 1680 - Maine is force-converted to animism.


February 25th, 1680 - Porto is force-converted to animism.


July 11th, 1680 - Hadramut is force-converted to animism.

Brunswick, finally out of the war with the Netherlands, give up some land.


July 29th, 1680 - Granada is force-converted to animism.


August 1st, 1680 - Cumbria is force-converted to animism.

Austria does the same.


September 2nd, 1680 - Ibrim is force-converted to animism.

In fact, Austria is the gift to Ming that keeps on giving...

September 2nd, 1680, Ming assaults Moldavia.

 

[MizarNX]

Austria is in a real bad shape! So, Lithuania and the Nederlands are the only powers left, is it correct? It would be funny to force Lithuania retreat to ile-de-france. Maybe the could even re-form France!
Anyway, great job with the Holy Roman Empire, or, better, what it's left of it!

 

[Darth Moose]

The Danes have returned to their Pagan ways! Hurrah!

I forget - are there Druids in Ireland now, or is it Hindu?

 

[PrawnStar]

December 8th, 1679 - Northumberland is force-converted to animism.

A Saturday night in Newcastle's Bigg market should convince anyone we're already pagans :rofl:

That pagan Denmark has potential, is it narrowminded enough?