• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #115 - Graveyard of Empires

16_9.png

Hello. This is Victoria, and today I will be covering the remainder of the Great Game-themed narrative content which is coming in Sphere of Influence and its accompanying update.

To avoid any confusion, I would like to clarify that none of the narrative content shown in this diary, nor the last diary, is gated behind the Great Game objective. The Great Game objective provides objective subgoals which grant points for certain journal entries and a score tracker which interfaces with much of this content for a more focused experience–it is not required to experience this content. All content within this diary, unless specified otherwise, is available both in sandbox mode or during the course of any objective.

Afghanistan

Afghanistan in 1836 is far from a united land. The slow collapse of the Durrani Empire has left it in a state of civil war for decades, with the primary claimants to the throne forming fiefdoms centred in Herat, Kabul, and Kandahar. In addition to this unfortunate internal situation, the Afghan states find themselves menaced by Persia’s expansionist ambitions from the West, the encroaching British East India Company from the East, and Russian influence from the North.

DD115_01.png

All Afghan states start with the Afghan Reunification Journal Entry active. Whilst the primary contenders for reunifying Afghanistan are Herat, Kandahar, and Kabul, the minor khanates of Maimana and Kunduz also have this available, allowing for the formation of an Afghanistan under an Uzbek Khan.

DD115_02.png

This journal entry allows all Afghan contenders to appeal to either Russia or Britain for military and diplomatic support in reunifying Afghanistan. If the relevant Great Power approves the contender’s request, they will be more inclined to support said contenders in diplomatic plays, and the contender will receive military bonuses in return for an obligation.

DD115_03.png

Once unified, a freshly formed Afghanistan may choose to either pursue additional claims on Pashtun and Tajik homelands, at the cost of infamy, or stop its expansion whilst it’s ahead.

DD115_04.png

Afghanistan’s unification content will be available to all players in the free update accompanying the release of Sphere of Influence.

Persia

Persia in 1836 is a country swelling with expansionist ambitions. The newly enthroned Mohammad Shah has consolidated his power, and wishes to annex the Principality of Herat as part of a grand ambition that would unify the Persian-speaking populace of Afghanistan with Persia and extend Persian influence throughout Central Asia.

DD115_05.png

In Sphere of Influence, these expansionist ambitions are represented through the Eastern Frontier Journal Entry. This journal entry provides the tools needed to realise Persia’s expansionist interests, with buttons for approaching either Russia or Britain, as well as gaining claims on the remainder of Central Asia under certain conditions..

DD115_06.png

If Persia occupies Herat, Britain will be warned, and will have the opportunity to demand that Persia withdraw from the region. If Britain sends the demand and Persia chooses to back down, this will represent a major humiliation setback in its expansionist ambitions. If Persia refuses to back down, Britain will become much more hostile towards Persia, and represent a major impediment to its future efforts.

DD115_07.png

DD115_08.png

While expanding North and East, Persia will encounter the massive slave markets of Turkmenia and Uzbekistan, and be faced with the need to either free the slaves or allow them to remain in captivity.

DD115_09.png

Additionally, Persia will have the opportunity to restore the great city of Merv, formerly one of the largest cities in the world before its desolation by Tolui Khan.

DD115_10.png

If Persia is successfully able to complete this Journal Entry, it is almost certain to become a major power in its own right–one that may be able to become recognised, expel both Russia and Britain from Central Asia, and force an end to the Great Game.

DD115_11.png

The above content for Persia is available for all owners of the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

Korea

Korea, despite being far from Central Asia, was not untouched by the Great Game. In the mid-to-late nineteenth century, it began feeling the effects of European influence, causing unrest among the intellectual class and the peasantry. The philosophy of Donghak, or Eastern Learning, was intended to present a path to establishing a democratic and egalitarian society in Korea whilst simultaneously refusing encroachment by foreign powers.

DD115_12.png

To represent Korea’s isolation from the world during this period of the Joseon Dynasty, Korea has been given the Isolationism law at game start. Once this law is replaced by a different trade law, a sufficient degree of turmoil builds up, and the effects of foreign influence begin to be felt in Korea, a new journal entry will appear. The Donghak Movement journal entry represents the hybrid religious-political peasant movements that occurred in Korea around the late 19th century. Whilst it is active, revolutions involving the Rural Folk will be greatly strengthened.

DD115_13.png

DD115_14.png

There are two paths to removing the threat of a peasant rebellion–reducing the amount of radicals in Korea to a manageable level, or completing the demands that the movement offers the government. Whilst the Donghak movement is active, they may issue a petition to the government, demanding that Korea go back into isolation, permit religious tolerance, and reduce the power of the Yangban. Accepting the petition will please the Rural Folk and decrease the threat of imminent revolution, but failing to meet its demands within the time allotted will make the situation endlessly worse.

DD115_15.png

DD115_16.png

If a movement involving the Rural Folk becomes revolutionary, the Journal Entry will fail, and massively escalate both the radicalism of the movement and the progress of the revolution. What would formerly have been mere civil unrest will transform into a near-guaranteed civil war–one which could run the risk of a foreign intervention which would be disastrous for Korea.

DD115_17.png

If Korea has a civil war whilst a subject of China, China will be inclined to come to the defence of its loyal government–but a modernised Japan may also be inclined to intervene, and be much less predictable in its allegiance.

DD115_18.png

As a bonus, Korea has also had several events pertaining to the Joseon monarchy added, allowing for the appearance of characters such as Gojong and the Empress Myeongseong.

DD115_19.png

This content for Korea is available for all players who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

The Caucasus

In Sphere of Influence, both of Russia’s opponents in the Caucasian War–Circassia and the Caucasian Imamate–receive journal entries to represent their role in the conflict. In the case of Circassia, this journal entry is completed by expelling the Russians from Kuban and achieving the borders claimed by the Circassian parliament.

DD115_20.png

Upon either the expiration of the truce between Circassia and Russia–or Russia’s escalation of the war using its Caucasian War journal entry–Circassia receives an event representing the historical Parliament of Independence in 1861. This event offers the opportunity to either focus on modernising the military in preparation for a Russian invasion, or appealing to foreign powers for recognition and support.

DD115_21.png

Foreign powers with an interest in the Caucasus region will receive the option to offer recognition to Circassia upon the conclusion of its war with Russia, as well as becoming more inclined to support it in a defensive war.

DD115_22.png

The Caucasian Imamate has also received a journal entry covering its struggle for independence. Its attached modifier grants the Imamate benefits in terms of morale and defence on states it owns.

DD115_23.png

Once Circassia’s starting leaders have died, the Imamate may use this journal entry to dispatch a leader to Circassia, fostering a formal alliance between both states.

DD115_24.png

If the Imamate and Circassia reverse the course of their wars and expel Russian influence from the North Caucasus, the Russian government will no longer have the ability to exert influence within the region. It will be forced to either try to maintain its administration through a storm of radicalism, or pull out from the region. Depending on the social technologies that Russia has unlocked, the collapse of the Caucasus may take the form of the restoration of some of its traditional kingdoms, the appearance of modern nation-states, or the establishment of a unified Transcaucasia.

Pictured: The third option is unlocked by the Nationalism technology, and the fourth by Pan-Nationalism.
DD115_25.png


Pictured: The result of the first option.

DD115_26.png

Content for the Caucasian Imamate and Circassia is available to those who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

Earning Recognition

The “Earning Recognition” Journal Entry permits an unrecognised major power to work towards the status of recognised nation. This journal entry replaces the currently existing Force Recognition wargoal–whilst defeating the Great Powers in wars still benefits an unrecognised nation immensely, it is not a one-and-done path to being regarded as an equal.

DD115_27.png

Conditions which benefit the cause of recognition include defeating Great or Major powers in wars, having high vital statistics such as GDP per capita, standard of living, and literacy, enacting voting rights, and using the new Request Embassy diplomatic action on Great Powers.

DD115_28.png

The Request Embassy Diplomatic Action is unique to this journal entry, and permits for requesting embassies in Great Powers. Each Great Power that is willing to accept an embassy will raise the progress towards Recognised status by 10%.

DD115_29.png

Conditions which harm the cause of recognition include having poor vital economic indicators, being defeated in a war, and having certain regressive laws that demonstrate one’s nation to be an unreliable business partner.

DD115_30.png

Earning Recognition will be available to all players as a part of the free update 1.7.

And that is all. Thank you for reading. Next week, Max will cover the new art of Sphere of Influence.
 
  • 127Like
  • 50Love
  • 10
  • 10
  • 3
Reactions:
Neat content! I have some questions regarding Persia:
- I presume the Pahlavi coup of 1921 isn't featured, but does Reza Shah Pahlavi at least appear as a historical character? A general or an agitator, perhaps?
- Is the new Persian blue colour tied to some government forms (like absolute monarchy with which Persia starts with), or is it their new colour for all forms of government? I'm kinda sad to see the orange changed...
- Does the name Iran feature under any conditions? The official renaming by the Pahlavis did happen in 1935, narrowly within the scope of the game...
 
  • 8Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Hello. This is Victoria, and today I will be covering the remainder of the Great Game-themed narrative content which is coming in Sphere of Influence and its accompanying update.

To avoid any confusion, I would like to clarify that none of the narrative content shown in this diary, nor the last diary, is gated behind the Great Game objective. The Great Game objective provides objective subgoals which grant points for certain journal entries and a score tracker which interfaces with much of this content for a more focused experience–it is not required to experience this content. All content within this diary, unless specified otherwise, is available both in sandbox mode or during the course of any objective.

Afghanistan

Afghanistan in 1836 is far from a united land. The slow collapse of the Durrani Empire has left it in a state of civil war for decades, with the primary claimants to the throne forming fiefdoms centred in Herat, Kabul, and Kandahar. In addition to this unfortunate internal situation, the Afghan states find themselves menaced by Persia’s expansionist ambitions from the West, the encroaching British East India Company from the East, and Russian influence from the North.


All Afghan states start with the Afghan Reunification Journal Entry active. Whilst the primary contenders for reunifying Afghanistan are Herat, Kandahar, and Kabul, the minor khanates of Maimana and Kunduz also have this available, allowing for the formation of an Afghanistan under an Uzbek Khan.


This journal entry allows all Afghan contenders to appeal to either Russia or Britain for military and diplomatic support in reunifying Afghanistan. If the relevant Great Power approves the contender’s request, they will be more inclined to support said contenders in diplomatic plays, and the contender will receive military bonuses in return for an obligation.


Once unified, a freshly formed Afghanistan may choose to either pursue additional claims on Pashtun and Tajik homelands, at the cost of infamy, or stop its expansion whilst it’s ahead.


Afghanistan’s unification content will be available to all players in the free update accompanying the release of Sphere of Influence.

Persia

Persia in 1836 is a country swelling with expansionist ambitions. The newly enthroned Mohammad Shah has consolidated his power, and wishes to annex the Principality of Herat as part of a grand ambition that would unify the Persian-speaking populace of Afghanistan with Persia and extend Persian influence throughout Central Asia.


In Sphere of Influence, these expansionist ambitions are represented through the Eastern Frontier Journal Entry. This journal entry provides the tools needed to realise Persia’s expansionist interests, with buttons for approaching either Russia or Britain, as well as gaining claims on the remainder of Central Asia under certain conditions..


If Persia occupies Herat, Britain will be warned, and will have the opportunity to demand that Persia withdraw from the region. If Britain sends the demand and Persia chooses to back down, this will represent a major humiliation setback in its expansionist ambitions. If Persia refuses to back down, Britain will become much more hostile towards Persia, and represent a major impediment to its future efforts.


While expanding North and East, Persia will encounter the massive slave markets of Turkmenia and Uzbekistan, and be faced with the need to either free the slaves or allow them to remain in captivity.


Additionally, Persia will have the opportunity to restore the great city of Merv, formerly one of the largest cities in the world before its desolation by Tolui Khan.


If Persia is successfully able to complete this Journal Entry, it is almost certain to become a major power in its own right–one that may be able to become recognised, expel both Russia and Britain from Central Asia, and force an end to the Great Game.


The above content for Persia is available for all owners of the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

Korea

Korea, despite being far from Central Asia, was not untouched by the Great Game. In the mid-to-late nineteenth century, it began feeling the effects of European influence, causing unrest among the intellectual class and the peasantry. The philosophy of Donghak, or Eastern Learning, was intended to present a path to establishing a democratic and egalitarian society in Korea whilst simultaneously refusing encroachment by foreign powers.


To represent Korea’s isolation from the world during this period of the Joseon Dynasty, Korea has been given the Isolationism law at game start. Once this law is replaced by a different trade law, a sufficient degree of turmoil builds up, and the effects of foreign influence begin to be felt in Korea, a new journal entry will appear. The Donghak Movement journal entry represents the hybrid religious-political peasant movements that occurred in Korea around the late 19th century. Whilst it is active, revolutions involving the Rural Folk will be greatly strengthened.


There are two paths to removing the threat of a peasant rebellion–reducing the amount of radicals in Korea to a manageable level, or completing the demands that the movement offers the government. Whilst the Donghak movement is active, they may issue a petition to the government, demanding that Korea go back into isolation, permit religious tolerance, and reduce the power of the Yangban. Accepting the petition will please the Rural Folk and decrease the threat of imminent revolution, but failing to meet its demands within the time allotted will make the situation endlessly worse.


If a movement involving the Rural Folk becomes revolutionary, the Journal Entry will fail, and massively escalate both the radicalism of the movement and the progress of the revolution. What would formerly have been mere civil unrest will transform into a near-guaranteed civil war–one which could run the risk of a foreign intervention which would be disastrous for Korea.


If Korea has a civil war whilst a subject of China, China will be inclined to come to the defence of its loyal government–but a modernised Japan may also be inclined to intervene, and be much less predictable in its allegiance.


As a bonus, Korea has also had several events pertaining to the Joseon monarchy added, allowing for the appearance of characters such as Gojong and the Empress Myeongseong.


This content for Korea is available for all players who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

The Caucasus

In Sphere of Influence, both of Russia’s opponents in the Caucasian War–Circassia and the Caucasian Imamate–receive journal entries to represent their role in the conflict. In the case of Circassia, this journal entry is completed by expelling the Russians from Kuban and achieving the borders claimed by the Circassian parliament.


Upon either the expiration of the truce between Circassia and Russia–or Russia’s escalation of the war using its Caucasian War journal entry–Circassia receives an event representing the historical Parliament of Independence in 1861. This event offers the opportunity to either focus on modernising the military in preparation for a Russian invasion, or appealing to foreign powers for recognition and support.


Foreign powers with an interest in the Caucasus region will receive the option to offer recognition to Circassia upon the conclusion of its war with Russia, as well as becoming more inclined to support it in a defensive war.


The Caucasian Imamate has also received a journal entry covering its struggle for independence. Its attached modifier grants the Imamate benefits in terms of morale and defence on states it owns.


Once Circassia’s starting leaders have died, the Imamate may use this journal entry to dispatch a leader to Circassia, fostering a formal alliance between both states.


If the Imamate and Circassia reverse the course of their wars and expel Russian influence from the North Caucasus, the Russian government will no longer have the ability to exert influence within the region. It will be forced to either try to maintain its administration through a storm of radicalism, or pull out from the region. Depending on the social technologies that Russia has unlocked, the collapse of the Caucasus may take the form of the restoration of some of its traditional kingdoms, the appearance of modern nation-states, or the establishment of a unified Transcaucasia.

Pictured: The third option is unlocked by the Nationalism technology, and the fourth by Pan-Nationalism.
View attachment 1126811

Pictured: The result of the first option.

View attachment 1126812

Content for the Caucasian Imamate and Circassia is available to those who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

Earning Recognition

The “Earning Recognition” Journal Entry permits an unrecognised major power to work towards the status of recognised nation. This journal entry replaces the currently existing Force Recognition wargoal–whilst defeating the Great Powers in wars still benefits an unrecognised nation immensely, it is not a one-and-done path to being regarded as an equal.


Conditions which benefit the cause of recognition include defeating Great or Major powers in wars, having high vital statistics such as GDP per capita, standard of living, and literacy, enacting voting rights, and using the new Request Embassy diplomatic action on Great Powers.


The Request Embassy Diplomatic Action is unique to this journal entry, and permits for requesting embassies in Great Powers. Each Great Power that is willing to accept an embassy will raise the progress towards Recognised status by 10%.


Conditions which harm the cause of recognition include having poor vital economic indicators, being defeated in a war, and having certain regressive laws that demonstrate one’s nation to be an unreliable business partner.


Earning Recognition will be available to all players as a part of the free update 1.7.

And that is all. Thank you for reading. Next week, Max will cover the new art of Sphere of Influence.
So the current setting will portray mass migration of Circassians to Ottoman Empire if they are defeated by russia, right?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I love the fact that there are a lot of new beautiful images. Howver, please tell me that the image with the British soldiers fighting is not in its final form. Right now it seems like it was done by chat GTP
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Can you add charts that show the historical change of wages in a particular industry? As well as an indicator that shows if the wages will go up, down, or stagnate?

Maybe also an indicator somewhere that shows how many lower strata have become middle strata and how many middle strata have become upper strata.
 
  • 7
  • 2Like
Reactions:
> the contender will receive military bonuses in return for an obligation
Oh god, this is bad.
The mechanics for army modernization (as part of westernisation) and limited foreign military assistance are sorely needed, but making those Afghanistan-specific is ridiculous.

Same can be said about Korean stuff. Of course, the free flow of trade affected the flow of ideas which disrupted the stability of inward-focused nations, but this is not something uniquely Korean and shouldn't only affect one country (generally, nothing ever should only work for just one country).

Thank god at least new recognition mechanics are universal.
I entirely agree, these two things should be global, with the specific journal entry bonuses being kept for the relevant countries.

Like I read about Afghanistan Petition for Assistance and I wonder how different is that from Japan asking the same from GB, US and France before and during the Bosshin War?
 
  • 6
  • 4
Reactions:
Love the unexpected changes to recognition and Korea's role here! Recognition in particular seems like it has a lot of potential to really make recognized and unrecognized states feel much more distinct, especially if it opens up new interactions between states like soliciting advisors.

I really like the ability of Afghan states to solicit foreign military assistance; could that same mechanic be integrated with the new recognition dynamic?
Foreign military assistance was so important for so many countries, including Japan.
 
  • 6Like
  • 3
Reactions:
This looks great, and a fair bit more interesting than last week's DD, especially the revised recognition system.

Is there really no new content regarding Persia's claims on Russia in the Caucasus? Given the amount of alt-history content in last week's DD I was very much expecting something regarding the possibility of a resurgent Persia potentially pushing Russia completely out of the region, as it seems like an obvious "next step" after solidifying their control over the Iranian plateau and Central Asia.

I get that this is very manageable via normal gameplay systems, but it seemed like it would be a fun capstone for playing as Persia. I assume that they still have their starting claims on the southernmost Russian states?
 
  • 7Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Considering that there might be a potential East Asian flavor pack, and Korea actually has not many things to do with Central Asia struggle, I suggest to make Korean contents available to all players — or you might have to do much more version-check things in the future.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Could you please make modifiers from journal entries visible in country screen with other country-wide modifiers?
 
  • 2
Reactions:
These recognition criteria are way too loose, recognition wasn't simply about having a decently developed social democracy. Particularly if 40% literacy alone is enough to gain recognition that would be absurdly easy.

Only country in this time period that gained any recognition at all was Japan, and it didn't because it had high literacy or voting rights. Even Japan failed to pass a recognition for non-Westerners:


The Japanese delegation had not realized the full ramifications of their proposal since its adoption would have challenged aspects of the established norms of the day's Western-dominated international system, which involved the colonial rule over non-white people. The intention of the Japanese was to secure equality of their nationals and the equality for members of the League of Nations.

Some African nation gaining recognition just because it has 40% literacy and thus costing high amount of infamy to conquer would be absurd. It already costs too much infamy for European imperialist nations to engage in colonialism.
 
  • 10
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
I notice that the decision to appeal to Britain or Russia mentions that no one else should be appealing to them when you decide to do so.

Does that mean that Britain and Russia will be able to support only 1 Afghan contender each? Or will they still be able to support other aspiring Afghan rulers?

Also, are there any benefits to Britain to not supporting the Circassians, other than not angering Russia?

Earning Recognition sounds amazing! Does your choice of Great Power for the Treaty of Commerce and Navigation have any effect?
Britain and Russia may only support one Afghan contender each. In terms of Britain not supporting Circassia, there is no drawback outside of risk of conflict with Russia.
Lastly, there is no difference. What matters is that a Great Power sponsors you, not which one it is.

One question about the earning recognition JE, one of the requirements for advancing is defeating a major power in a war. Does that major power need to be recognized? Wouldn't Japan defeating China in a war help give it a lot of recognition like it did IRL in the first Sino Japanese War?
Only recognised Great Powers and Major Powers count for the purposes of gaining recognition through enforcing wargoals.

So the current setting will portray mass migration of Circassians to Ottoman Empire if they are defeated by russia, right?
This is addressed in the previous dev diary. The forced expulsion of Circassians to the Ottoman Empire occurs if Russia chooses certain options whilst at war with Circassia.

This looks great, and a fair bit more interesting than last week's DD, especially the revised recognition system.

Is there really no new content regarding Persia's claims on Russia in the Caucasus? Given the amount of alt-history content in last week's DD I was very much expecting something regarding the possibility of a resurgent Persia potentially pushing Russia completely out of the region, as it seems like an obvious "next step" after solidifying their control over the Iranian plateau and Central Asia.

I get that this is very manageable via normal gameplay systems, but it seemed like it would be a fun capstone for playing as Persia. I assume that they still have their starting claims on the southernmost Russian states?

Persia does indeed retain their starting claims on much of the southern Caucasus, yes.
 
  • 16
  • 9Like
Reactions:
Some African nation gaining recognition just because it has 40% literacy and thus costing absurd amount of infamy to conquer would be absurd. It already costs too much infamy for European imperialist nations to engage in colonialism.
Keep in mind that you need more positive modifiers than negative for recognition, so having 40% literacy won't be enough if you have regressive laws or are the target of major powers
 
  • 9
  • 1
Reactions:
I think defeating Russia gave Japan recognition, not China

Defeating China showed that Japan was a power in the east more preeminent than China, being able to push its own unequal treaties to China. Defeating Russia showed they weren't just a regional power, but one able to triumph over greater powers. Both victories gave them a major boost in prestige.
 
  • 4
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Keep in mind that you need more positive modifiers than negative for recognition, so having 40% literacy won't be enough if you have regressive laws or are the target of major powers

It does not matter, nations did not gain recognition simply because they were doing well for themselves and solving the 21st century Scandinavian model social democracy. That's not how imperialism works, why would the British or French recognize Lesotho as a player in international politics just because they happen to have really good living standards for their citizens?

This is an absurd white washing of history that if only a country was doing well for its citizens it would earn the recognition of imperialist nations like British and France in international politics. It's honestly lacking so much understanding of this era's politics to think that imperialist powers gave a fair consideration with equitable criteria for how they recognized nations and states, and any peoples failing to get recognition did so because they weren't democratic and literate enough.
 
  • 16
  • 3Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
It does not matter, nations did not gain recognition simply because they were doing well for themselves and solving the 21st century Scandinavian model social democracy. That's not how imperialism works, why would the British or French recognize Lesotho as a player in international politics just because they happen to have really good living standards for their citizens?

This is an absurd white washing of history that if only a country was doing well for its citizens it would earn the recognition of imperialist nations like British and France in international politics. It's honestly lacking so much understanding of this era's politics to think that imperialist powers gave a fair consideration with equitable criteria for how they recognized nations and states, and any peoples failing to get recognition did so because they weren't democratic and literate enough.
I think it's more that the mechanics are redefining what "recognition" means, I think.

If you get recognized, it doesn't mean you're automatically a great power; it means that you're a country where Great Powers respect your sovereignty.

Taking Circassia as an example: if Circassia is recognized by GPs, Russia faces greater penalties for conquering them. This would be similar to what we see where GPs don't like it when you conquer the Netherlands or a province of Brazil. Similarly, Egypt getting recognition means that it will be less popular to force a treaty port or steal Eritrea.
 
  • 17Like
Reactions:
All these features look really amazing! can't wait to play the game again!

still, got a couple of questions regarding the recognition feature:

1) aren't the requirements 'being amongst top-20 GDP per capita and standard of living, and above 40% of literacy rate' too high? can China, for example, achieve recognition via them (considering other conditions are met) before 1910-1920s?

2) isn't "Outlawed Dissent" locked behind the Era IV tech "Political Agitation"? how come can an unrecognised power have it in 1836? or, when this tech is discovered, what will be the purpose for a player to have the Outlawed Dissent if it hurts the chances of becoming a recognized nation? seems kinda odd
 
  • 1
Reactions:
It does not matter, nations did not gain recognition simply because they were doing well for themselves and solving the 21st century Scandinavian model social democracy. That's not how imperialism works, why would the British or French recognize Lesotho as a player in international politics just because they happen to have really good living standards for their citizens?

This is an absurd white washing of history that if only a country was doing well for its citizens it would earn the recognition of imperialist nations like British and France in international politics. It's honestly lacking so much understanding of this era's politics to think that imperialist powers gave a fair consideration with equitable criteria for how they recognized nations and states, and any peoples failing to get recognition did so because they weren't democratic and literate enough.
High GDP/capita doesn't mean high SOL of poor people - you don't need consumer economy for this, you can export them and industrial goods.
You would need like everyone turning into communist coops if becoming social democracy was only other option for high enough SoL.

SOL increases if you have high workforce ratio and low taxes too.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
This is honestly cooler to me than the Great Game content for Britain/Russia. The unrecognized powers jockeying for foreign aid to accomplish regional goals is gonna be quite fun.
 
  • 9Like
  • 2
Reactions:
I think it's more that the mechanics are redefining what "recognition" means, I think.

If you get recognized, it doesn't mean you're automatically a great power; it means that you're a country where Great Powers respect your sovereignty.

Taking Circassia as an example: if Circassia is recognized by GPs, Russia faces greater penalties for conquering them. This would be similar to what we see where GPs don't like it when you conquer the Netherlands or a province of Brazil. Similarly, Egypt getting recognition means that it will be less popular to force a treaty port or steal Eritrea.

That's exactly it. British imperialists wouldn't be less popular among imperialist nations for conquering Lesotho just because they have high literacy and high GDP per capita. This idea assumes that imperialist nations were making fair utilitarian assessment of HDI on how they judged for what they considered overstepping in international politics. That's not how it worked.

More worryingly, since Paradox is making a historical game here, it purports the idea that if a country simply was a social democracy then it would cause more outrage in imperial consensus for them to conquered. This is simply not the case and no such thing was considered by imperial powers.
 
  • 12
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions: