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EU4 - Development Diary - 8th of May 2018

Hello and welcome!


This is the third and last development diary on what map and setup changes patch 1.26 for Europa Universalis IV will bring. This time we will turn our attention to the north and east. We will start by turning away from India for a bit and looking into what the situation was like in Burma in 1444 and then return to have a closer look at Bengal and Tibet.
Previous Diaries have shown changes to South India and North India.

We will also be taking a second look at what new formables we will be introducing with the patch in India.


Burma
BUrma.png


Today we move our attention east to the Irrawaddy valley and the region of Burma. For almost 500 years Burma was dominated by the Pagan Kingdom but by the end of the thirteenth century the Yuan dynasty destroyed Pagan through repeated invasions. In 1444 Pagan’s legacy lives in the form of an entrenched presence of Theravada Buddhism but the region is still largely divided into the various fortified Shan states that were once vassals of Pagan.
In the last 80 years the Burmese Kingdom of Ava have attempted to pick up the fallen Mantle of Pagan, building a city state using the organization and administration of the former kingdom.
Ava has in short time risen to be the overlord of the Shan Soaphas but would historically itself be replaced by the Shan states as they united in the Shan Confederation to overthrow their old master.
It was not however until the 16th century that the small kingdom of Taungu would once again unify the entire region and then turn its attention towards South East Asia and India.

The Burmese region has been given a thorough overhaul in patch 1.26 by our recent addition to the EU4 team @neondt ! To better portray the situation at the start and the rising Ava kingdom we have added a number of new Shan and Burmese states, most of which are tributaries of Ava at start as well as a general increase in the depth and province density of the region.,

To further highlight the separated nature of Burma the inland is now also its own, Burmese, Trade Node with trade incoming from Chengdu and outgoing to Bengal and the Burmese culture group has been separated from the Tibetan group.

In the government overhaul in the, as of yet unannounced DLC, there will also be a “Mandala” government reform that is available to the Burmese and countries in South East Asia.


New Playable Countries in 1444:
  • Kale - Small Shan kingdom in the Chin hills next to the Arakanese mountains. Starts as a Tributary of Ava.
  • Mong Mao - Small Shan state right at the border of Ming China. Led by Si Renfa this small kingdom has just defended itself against its mighty neighbor and would soon find the need to do so again. While Mong Mao eventually fell to the Chinese advance they put up a much stronger resistance than one might expect.
  • Mong Nai - Small Shan Kingdom representing the states of Mong Kung and Mong Nai. Starts as a Tributary of Ava.
  • Mong Pai - Small Shan kingdom bordering both Ava and Lan Na. Starts as a tributary of Ava.
  • Prome - Small Burmese kingdom between Ava and Pegu. Starts as a tributary of Ava.
  • Hsipaw - Shan Kingdom in the highlands just east of Ava. Starts as a tributary of Ava.


Bengal & Upper Burma
Bengal.png


Much like most of Northern India Bengal in 1444 is a state that has broken free from the Delhi sultanate. Unlike most of the other Sultanates however Bengal is a region that has often been both autonomous and rebellious. The Ilyas Shahi dynasty broke their ties with Delhi as 50 years before the city fell to Timur and have spent time since building a strong state kingdom around the mouth of the Ganges. In the decades preceding the start of the game the Sultanate has just gotten rid of the line of a Hindu Vizier who through his abilities had risen to control the Sultanate while also expanding on the expensive of the nearby states of Tripura and Orissa.

To the north the Ahom kingdom of Assam has come to dominate the Brahmaputra valley over the last 200 - years. The Ahom dynasty has its roots in Mong Mao and have come to displace the local rulers while undertaking a rapid “Ahomization” of the local population, introducing south east asian methods of agriculture and administration. In the far northern uplands the older kingdom of Sudiya still lingers but its ability to withstand Assamese, or indeed Burmese, invasions is by now limited.

In 1.26 Bengal and its surroundings along the Ganges and Brahmaputra have been expanded with more provinces and a higher level of detail. A Kochi culture has been added for northern Bengal and the existing Koch state is its primary tag. New incoming trade node connections have been added from Lhasa and the new Burma node.

We have also taken the opportunity to expand on the strategic nature of the Burmese geography. Adding more depth in the form of provinces as well as wastelands to better show the perils of navigating the valleys of Upper Burma. Eliminating the odd situation in previous patches where Ming would be able to immediately invade Burma and then India from the get go the new setup means that there will be a lot more land to cover for an enterprising Chinese state looking to expand its tributary network in India or Burma.

Manipur retains its position as a gate through the Arakanese mountains, and might still play the role they had historically as a surprisingly strong and able enemy of the Shan states and the Indian hill countries alike.

New Playable Country in 1444:
Mong Kawng - Shan state controlling the valleys of upper Burma, borders the Tibetan region in the north and the Sadiya kingdom in north eastern Assam to the west.

Tibet
Tibet.png


In 1444 Tibet has seen a recent powershift from the southern Phagmodrupa dynasty in the Yarlung valley to the Rinpungpa Dynasty (U-Tsang in the game). While the Phagmodrupa, formerly overlords of the Rinpungpa and “Masters of Abisheka” according to the Ming, are no longer as strong as they once were, they still retain control over their homeland and would continue to maintain an independent presence until the 17th century.

In 1.26 we have once again have help from @Fryz with research and setup for Tibet. Like in the other focus regions we have added provinces and countries where we felt it appropriate, such as Sakya, headquarter of its eponymous school, and Damxung, the strategical gateway to Lhasa on the ancient Xi'an-Lhasa road.
Perhaps most impactful however are the new wastelands that have been added to better reflect how restrictive the geography of the Tibetan plateau can be. In the far east the Hengduan range now restricts access between Tibet and China, much like the added wastelands in Burma to the south also do.
The unsettled Changthang highland has also gone from a gigantic normal province to be a wasteland cutting off direct access between eastern Tibet and Guge in the west. Together with Aqenganggyai it also ensures that central Tibet is still cut off from Tarim basin while the new province of Rutleg makes access towards India from there somewhat easier.
In the north east the new Qilian mountains also restrict movement between northern Tibet and Gansu.

New Playable Country in 1444:

Phagmodrupa - Medium Tibetan kingdom in southern Ü-Tsang.

I promised a look to what new formables patch 1.26 will give to the game. Two had already been shown in a previous diary but are included below for a complete list:


  • Delhi - The main Sultanate title in India was always Delhi. A northern Indian Sultanate will be able to become Delhi once they have secured the Imperial city itself and will then gain claims and other content related to that country.
  • Nepal - Formable for a strong Nepalese kingdom that unifies the central parts of the country. Gives better national ideas and claims on the wider region claimed by Nepal at its greatest extent.
  • Nagpur - The Kingdom of Nagpur was historically founded by the Rajas of Deogarh, but was then usurped by the Maratha Bhonsle dynasty. Nagpur would then conquer most of the tribal Indian central/eastern Tribal region. In the game any of the Central Indic countries that unifies Gondwana and the Garjats will be able to form the stronger Nagpur kingdom, potentially also inviting a Maratha dynasty.
  • Punjab - A small Punjabi country can, if it conquers the right Punjabi provinces form Punjab and gain access to their national idea set.
  • Deccan - A surviving sultanate in Deccan that reaches a enough power and influence can reform into the sultanate of Deccan. This country is loosely based on the Nizamate of the Deccan, a state set up by the Mughal Empire that ended up not only outliving it but also becoming the largest princely state in India before finally being occupied by the Republic of India. The Nizamate will gain access to claims and new national ideas.
  • Marathas - A Hindu country of Maratha culture and in possession of the right provinces can, if it fulfills the right criteria, form the Maratha tag and gain access to claims and national ideas.
  • Rajputana - Technically the land of many princes Rajputana is a formation available to a Rajput kingdom that manages to not only unite the Rajput lands but also reclaim the important cities of the great medieval Rajput kingdoms such as Ujjain, Kannauj and Anhilwad Patan.

Last but not least the requirement for the Bharat or Hindustan formations have been made considerably harder. Expect to be masters of India before being able to title yourselves as such :)
 
Without MOH they will be independent. Just like other tributaries on startup.
It was felt that being independent entirely was more true to history than starting as a vassal without the DLC for countries that were tributaries.

Speaking of Tributaries, it would be nice to have some of the Russian minors and Steppe Hordes in central asia as tributaries to show the nominal power the Great Horde still held in the area.
 
Even Grand Principality of Moscow formally was a tributary to a Great Horde. Historically they became fully independent only in 1480.
 
I have still not understood what the word Mandala stands here for - is it symbolising the spirituality concept within Hinduism & Buddhism meaning centre and will have some characteristic form of government with Buddhist philosophical line; or its the political Mandala meaning a group, confederacy, cartel, or a loose union.

From what I have learned in a course about the history of international relations, Mandala was a political conception of the world specific to Southeast Asia, where countries were represented as belonging to a « sphere of influence », much more flexible than the European concept of political sovereignty.
Since administrative vassal-suzerain ties were considered relatively loose, a tributary relationship is possibly more relevant here than a traditional vassal

Something which would also apply for example to the Majapahit and Srivijaya empire before it.

I can’t link you to the documentary source since it was a university course in French, but here is an example of what it refers to
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandala_(political_model)

I am wondering though how it is relevant to EU4, since the vassal model relationship in the game is really limited, not really adapted to this kind of spontaneous, possibly overlapping and successive levels of tributes.
I.e, Majapahit was not much more powerful than most of its tributaries (unlike Ming) as its core power resided in its influence over these tributaries...
In EU4 however there is currently no incentive to make yourself into a tributary except to protect yourself from a much more powerful state (Ming, Qing)
 
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By popular request here is an overview of the entire subcontinent zoomed out.

View attachment 367244

Trin Tragula, once again brilliant work. I have a simple request, would be appreciated by the entire community if you deem it fit to be fulfilled, as it also a popular request. Can Bharat have a saffron color instead, assuming that Bharat as intended in the game is a tag formed by Hindu nations, it makes more sense for it to be saffron, than green. Moreover, there is too much green in the region already, with late game neighbours like Persia, Ottomans, Russia. Bharat in the mix just makes the entire Western half of Asia, a nasty blend of green.
 
High attrition and low value, probably. Tibet is huge, politically decentralized. When the Qianglong emperor wanted to integrate the Jinchuan valley in eastern Kham, it become his most costly campaign

Generally this is something euiv can't represent (compare to ottomans sending down 50k armies through the Sahara desert)

Tibet mananged to centralise itself in the 7th century and the 14th century onward. It was allso invaded and conquered twice by nomad invaders from the Tarim basin. The chinese only bothered to take over Tibet because these nomad invaders started sending out raiding parties into southwestern China from Tibet.

What I think was the case was that while it was possible to send armies throught the himalayan passes, it must have been imposible to govern over the alps. When the tibetan state was at it's strongest in the 8th century it directly conqered the Tarim Basim and Yunnan region from the chinese, but it only controlled Bengal throught a vassal kingdom.

What I think Paradox should do is make it so that any state with a capital in the indian subcontinent or burmese region should have +100% coring cost of provinces in the tibetan region, and any state with a capital in Tibet should have +100% coring cost on any province in India and Burma.
 
Can we get a buff in the the Ottomans in the next patch?

I actually saw them lose a battle once against only double the army size!
 
Tibet mananged to centralise itself in the 7th century and the 14th century onward. It was allso invaded and conquered twice by nomad invaders from the Tarim basin. The chinese only bothered to take over Tibet because these nomad invaders started sending out raiding parties into southwestern China from Tibet.

What I think was the case was that while it was possible to send armies throught the himalayan passes, it must have been imposible to govern over the alps. When the tibetan state was at it's strongest in the 8th century it directly conqered the Tarim Basim and Yunnan region from the chinese, but it only controlled Bengal throught a vassal kingdom.

What I think Paradox should do is make it so that any state with a capital in the indian subcontinent or burmese region should have +100% coring cost of provinces in the tibetan region, and any state with a capital in Tibet should have +100% coring cost on any province in India and Burma.


For most of it's history, Tibet has not been effectively centralized. The empire, lasted 300 years, stagnated and couldn't keep itself together. Mongols ruled Tibet through an intermidiary (Sakya) and their rule over western tibet were only nominal. The Sakya government were so weak that it was overthrown by local nobles (Phagmodrupa). The Phagmodrupa made efforts to centralize Ü-Tsang area, but the structure of the state were very feudal and Phagmodrupa didn't control any territory in Kham, Amdo or Ngari. Amdo and Kham were fragmented during most of the EUIV timeline, Ngari and Ladakh were at some times united but mostly fragmented.

Phagmodrupa rule were so weak it was surpassed by their own vassal (Ringpungpa) in the 15th century, yet Ringpungpa never managed to dominate all of Ü-Tsang and there themselves overthrown by their vassal a century later. Güshri Khan and later Zungars essentially only controlled northern Amdo and Ü-Tsang. Qing started making inroads in Kham in the 18th century with the Jinchuan wars which are good examples of the difficulties of really integrating these sort of areas.

Kham did not start to get under the Ganden Podrag regimes control until 19th century. The Nyarong war which happened in the 1860's are a good point to look at. Still there were independent kingdoms in Tibet outside both Lhasas and Beijings control into the 20th century (Kingdom of Muli)
 
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Nice!And I think Ava and Mong Mao were importance state in Indo China Peninsula,so why not give them special ideas?
I have designed their ideas in my MOD(though not yet upload to community)
SMM_ideas:0 "Mong Mao ideas"
  • SMM_ideas_start:0 "Mong Mao tradition"
heir_chance = 0.5
num_accepted_cultures = 1​
  • SMM_ideas_bonus:0 "Mong Mao Ambition"
fabricate_claims_cost = -0.33​
  • TianShenYinXi:0 "The Seal of Rukhaso"
  • TianShenYinXi_desc:0 "When the first Saopha XunIi Khann Phaa has not yet become Saopha,he receive God Rukhaso's order to dig out a jade-stone engraved with text,it's the symbol which God give him to lead him become the SaMaTa(Great Leader) of Mong Mao。We should keep the seal forever."
legitimacy = 1​
  • MengHuYueDing:0 "Tiger Jump Over the Head"
  • MengHuYueDing_desc:0 "After XunIi Khann Phaa get the seal,God Rukhaso shapeshift to a tiger and jump over his Head,it's represents Rukhaso Authorized he unites Shan lands by force,and the principle never change even today."
unjustified_demands = -0.1​
  • YunZheLan:0 "Repair VenTseLan"
  • YunZheLan_desc:0 "After XunIi Khann Phaa is crowned of SaMaTa of Mong Mao,he renamed as Sae Khann Phaa (mean "the King who had jump over his head by tiger")because of the tiger jump over his head,and requisition millons people to build the great capital in Mong Mao——the Ven TseLan,but after decades,the great capital should be retrofited and make Mong Mao great again!"
prestige_decay = -0.01​
  • shan_wet_rice——same to EU4
  • DaoXiangMiRuan:0 "SaoXunSamLon"
  • DaoXiangMiRuan_desc:0 "Sae Khann Phaa's brother SaoXunSamLon is a only great general,the army he commanded was invincible and expand Mong Mao domain,but he was killed by rumors!The tragedy warned us should keep careful."
free_leader_pool = 1​
  • ZhongZhaoZhiHan:0 "Saopha of Saophas"
  • ZhongZhaoZhiHan_desc:0 "Sae Khann Phaa extend his authority further,all saophas -- Whether shan or no-shan -- come to Mong Mao to formally call on Sae Khann Phaa,recognize he is the overlord of Shans,Sae Khann Phaa become Saopha of Saophas -- the Hosen"
diplomatic_upkeep = 1​
  • HuoPaoJiShu:0 "the Technology of Cannon"
  • HuoPaoJiShu_desc:0 "Northern Han people usually use cannons in war,the weapons can bring huge sound to scare the elephants even human and damage everythings its fired.Many Han soliders escape from their camps and take the Technology of Cannon to us."
leader_land_fire = 1​

AVA_ideas:0 "Ava ideas"
  • AVA_ideas_start:0 "Ava tradition"
heir_chance = 0.5
num_accepted_cultures = 1​
  • AVA_ideas_bonus:0 "Ava Ambition"
land_attrition = -0.1​
  • DanSanXiongDi:0 "The Three Shan Brothers"
  • DanSanXiongDi_desc:0 "Our ancestors,Three Shan Brothers who from Shan land take the power of Pagan and use the strategy to force Mongolians to retreat.the second brother and the third brother to establish kingdom of Pinya and kingdom of Sagaing.But only us -- descendant of the great brother has the claim to rule these lands!"
legitimacy = 1​
  • legacy_of_the_pagan_dynasty——same to EU4
  • AHeMuDan:0 "Ahmudan"
  • AHeMuDan_desc:0 "Ahmudan is a system with a long history,the implementation of this system can be traced back to the time of Yaza Anuruddha of Pagan:Organizing the people in a specific way, farming in peacetime, and going into battle immediately during the war, not only utilized manpower effectively, but also stabilized our rule."
land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.2​
  • MianRenWenHua:0 "Myanmarese Culture"
  • MianRenWenHua_desc:0 "Though our ancestors move from Shan land,But for a long time, Myanmarese culture has deeply affected us,Recognizes Myanmarese culture as the culture of the upper society,it will make Myanmarese more sympathetic to us as their rulers"
stability_cost_modifier = -0.1​
  • YanChaMaoYi:0 "the Salt and Tea Trade"
  • YanChaMaoYi_desc:0 "Ava can product salt,our neighbors also。But they lack teas and ways to gain them easily,if If we set up a special caravan to sell it, we will get a huge profit from it."
caravan_power = 0.2

ZhongGuoCeFeng:0 "Chinese Authorize"
ZhongGuoCeFeng_desc:0 "Decades ago,Chinese Emperor confer us the title of MianDian-XuanWeiShi(the Natives Chieftan of Myanmarese),though we and neighbors basically does not recognize the power brought by this title,but if we want to get more benefits,recognize the title will reduce unnecessary trouble."
diplomatic_reputation = 1​
  • TongHePuGan:0 "Reunite Pagan"
  • TongHePuGan_desc:0 "Since the collapse of Pagan, this land has been split into many small countries. This is an excellent opportunity. With the prevailing name of Pagan and influence of China, we will once again be united."
fabricate_claims_cost = -0.33​
 
Trin Tragula, once again brilliant work. I have a simple request, would be appreciated by the entire community if you deem it fit to be fulfilled, as it also a popular request. Can Bharat have a saffron color instead, assuming that Bharat as intended in the game is a tag formed by Hindu nations, it makes more sense for it to be saffron, than green. Moreover, there is too much green in the region already, with late game neighbours like Persia, Ottomans, Russia. Bharat in the mix just makes the entire Western half of Asia, a nasty blend of green.


YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!! Please do this !!!!!!!'! That horrid late game green screen hurts my eyes:p thanks
 
India looks reeeally nice. Always a favourite.
So what's next? Maghreb? Balkans? Germany? They could all equally use a facelift...
 
Last but not least the requirement for the Bharat or Hindustan formations have been made considerably harder. Expect to be masters of India before being able to title yourselves as such :)
Yay. This is good news. I've never really noticed it until now, but in MP, it was always easy for a player to unite India. Too easy. Making Bharat and Hindustan hard to form should slow them down a lot.
 
So no Changes updates on Italian provinces what are still missing a lot of details and original states?
I do hope either Italy or Germany is the subject for the next patch, their last update was 1.12 I believe.
And we can't really expect every single state to be added, the Holy Roman Empire was quite plentiful in terms of tiny states, lol.
 
Ah Jake, your ruse hasnt fooled all of us. We both know the rivers you posted were from Milan/Balkans/Spain/Chukchi and that these past few DD's are leading up to a twist.
Chukchi expansion please.
 
Next expansion will be Southern Europe, then the patch after that will be the Americas, then the next expansion will be a HRE and Eastern Europe one. Then after that it will be South East Asia patch.
 
I just realized, that Ava is completely surrounded by its tributaries. Not much option for early expansion.
 
Next expansion will be Southern Europe, then the patch after that will be the Americas, then the next expansion will be a HRE and Eastern Europe one. Then after that it will be South East Asia patch.
We can't know for sure, but I don't want Iberia. Iberia's been updated numerous times, and in its current state, both politically and in terms of game balance, looks fine.
Meanwhile, the Duchy of Epirus is still nowhere to be found, lol