Why do developers hate trading republics?

Why do developers hate trading republics?

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Wolfrex

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While the monarchies and republics, the estates are getting better, the trading republic still has the same bonuses from the factions as at the time of its appearance. Trading cities (which stand out from their own land) are not even entities. Well, do something with this already. :confused: And even parliament is not allowed. Nothing is allowed. The modifier of production on their lands near the trading republic is removed. A trade union leader is not a war leader if an attack occurs on a member of the league. Thus, we still have an unplayable form of government. I don’t even want to mention about the long-suffering Novgorod - if you are forming Russia, you MUST become a monarchy
 

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EarlKonrad

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The simplest explanation I can think of is that the devs update chunks of the game at a time and, for whatever reason, they still haven't come around to updating Republics in general.

Yes, I know, it's been almost half a decade now since republics got any meaningful update.
 
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Wolfrex

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The simplest explanation I can think of is that the devs update chunks of the game at a time and, for whatever reason, they still haven't come around to updating Republics in general.

Yes, I know, it's been almost half a decade now since republics got any meaningful update.
But the trade republics have not received it at all since the advent of the trade leagues. An exception is the administrative limit. However, earlier, a trading republic could expand. Limiting the number of provinces in possessions was not a problem for this.


example in version 1.29
 

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Father of Nations

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I don’t even want to mention about the long-suffering Novgorod - if you are forming Russia, you MUST become a monarchy
Why? The stated provinces limit was lifted.

And they definitely need a rework of their faction boni because in comparison to what you can get out of estates they’re just laughable. I‘m not sure about letting the leader of trade leagues being able to call his allies, this might be a little bit too op.
 

Wolfrex

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Why? The stated provinces limit was lifted.

And they definitely need a rework of their faction boni because in comparison to what you can get out of estates they’re just laughable. I‘m not sure about letting the leader of trade leagues being able to call his allies, this might be a little bit too op.
Maybe just forgot. Novgorod and government reforms that appeared in the trade republics are not available. Why? Just because. Thus, there is not a single reason why it makes sense for Novgorod to remain a Veche republic; instead, it is possible for him to score 50 points of government reforms and change the Veche republic to an oligarchy. Amid the latest innovations, the balance is catastrophic
 

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fleetothemoon

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Ah, I didn't know they removed the production bonuses. I guess they thought the removal was warranted since MR are no longer hindered by state limit.

But yeah, as it is, MR sucks more than ever. No access to Estates means less mana. No access to parliament, means no access to RT debates, which means less RT, thus less mana too. There's no benefit to being a MR whatsoever.
 
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fr-rein

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All eastern Europe outside of Muscovy and a few minors is ignored, not just Novgorod.

Novgorod is the ignored republic.
Cossacks are gloriously ignored (to the point of having neither estates nor republics).
And Lithuania is the ignored major of 1444.

PDX currently sends this message for Eastern Europe: become Tsardom, drink vodka, ride on bears with an army of summoned spirits of streltsy. There is NOTHING else to do with Eastern Europe unless you are Poland (and even it is softly encouraged to go Orthodox and to do just that).

Now I understand what you mean. They might have forgot to update veche republics. Maybe file a bug report?
It is more likely to be WAD given all the dismissive attitude they have for region. The part about Novgorod becoming Tsardom was cemented ever since Third Rome and they never ever bothered with it. And if Novgorod becoming Russia is WAD it makes no sense to give them republic update in their eyes.

Cossacks in Zaporozhia have a mission tree to become Tsardom too for example, it is what game offers them and it is WAD.

So no, it is not a bug report since it has a chance of being just a design choice.
 
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Lightwell

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The modifier of production on their lands near the trading republic is removed.
Wait, no. Clarify. That was the main reason anyone played MRs. Why would that be gone? Is it a bug?
 
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aqvamare

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Yeah, so correct, play a testgame as

+milan, 50 years, with republic and estate mechanic.
+genoa, 50 years as classic merchant republic and no estates
+venice, 50 years, as special goverment mercahnt republic

3 republics, all three starts in the same region, and winner will be milan. Even in a 100% trade focused game, millan wins, thx to new trading company mechanic. You can farm extra merchants from ragusa, tunis and more, so as milan you expand into valencia and sevilla, rest of world into trading company.
 
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enkidu136

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Ah, I didn't know they removed the production bonuses.
Did they?
Wait, no. Clarify. That was the main reason anyone played MRs. Why would that be gone? Is it a bug?
I had this issue some time ago, because I didnt buy a DLC. :p Veche trading boni e.g. on goods produced were gone . . . and reappeared when I bought the DLC :cool: -> this link
 

Wolfrex

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Wait, no. Clarify. That was the main reason anyone played MRs. Why would that be gone? Is it a bug?
within the provinces of the trading republic, this bonus is removed. In trading companies, including, although there the trading republic now has a standard bonus for a trading charter

It’s a little difficult for me to write in English, so I try to show with screenshots what I mean, just in case
 

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Ninaran

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They dislike Republics in general because they think the high leader points totally make up for all the massive penalties they get.
 
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fleetothemoon

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within the provinces of the trading republic, this bonus is removed. In trading companies, including, although there the trading republic now has a standard bonus for a trading charter

It’s a little difficult for me to write in English, so I try to show with screenshots what I mean, just in case
This is an interesting and rather strange change. It is hard to determine if it makes MR stronger or weaker, and if it makes it more fun to play. At the very least, it does make MR somewhat unique, as there are more incentives for them to grow trade companies, which I guess, is fitting, given that they are a MR.

At the moment, it's a bit strange when it comes to determining whether or not I can convert something into a trade company.

As Venice, it seems I can turn Dalmatia into a trade company, despite dev citing the following criteria:

The new rules for where you can create Trade Companies are as follows:
  • Province religion must be of a different religious group than the owning nation
  • Province must be considered overseas both from nation and any subjects of nation, not including tributaries.
  • Province must not be part of the HRE
Dalmatia is not part of the HRE... but Dalmatia has same religious group (Catholic) and Dalmatia shouldn't be considered to be an overseas province? Of course, it might just be a matter of Dalmatia being on a different sub-continent as divided by the game, but it is a little strange nonetheless. From what I tested, it seems we can convert any province into a trade company as long as they arent in the HRE and in a different subcontinent than your trade capital.

Overall, I can't say if this more effective than conventional expansion, without playing more and comparing the trade companies.

I would find it hard-pressed to say that MRs are better than normal republics though, who can get estate and parliament advantage, without governing capacity penalties.
 

Alfray Stryke

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As Venice, it seems I can turn Dalmatia into a trade company, despite dev citing the following criteria:

Dalmatia is not part of the HRE... but Dalmatia has same religious group (Catholic) and Dalmatia shouldn't be considered to be an overseas province?
This was changed so the only requirement to make a trade company is the province is in a different subcontinent than your capital.
 
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Wolfrex

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They dislike Republics in general because they think the high leader points totally make up for all the massive penalties they get.
But NOT trading republics have estates. And there are re-elections. From the point of view of pragmatism, there is generally no reason to remain a trading republic, when you can change the form of government for an oligarchy for 50 points, have re-elections and get estates
 
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Ixalmaris

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They have no idea what to do with trading republics, simply because the best way to trade is to conquer everything.
EU4 has stopped being a GSG a long time ago and is just a simple map painter. You paint by conquest and by colonizing. There is no room for a trader in the game. So trading republics get ignored.
 
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They have no idea what to do with trading republics, simply because the best way to trade is to conquer everything.
EU4 has stopped being a GSG a long time ago and is just a simple map painter. You paint by conquest and by colonizing. There is no room for a trader in the game. So trading republics get ignored.
Well, I mean, currently, MRs seems to have incentives to also conquer more land to convert it to trade companies, so I guess there is still room for a hyper aggro trading play? :p Although other than the passive good bonus, there isnt anything else that MR can do with trade companies that a normal republic/monarchy cannot afaik.