Why did Japan go for horse archery of all things?

[Båtsman]

The pre Sengoku era Japanese military, specifically its samurai horse archers, has always baffled me. Why of all things would an island nation full of rugged hills, mountains, and forests go for horse archery? Is it all from cultural values - I.e. a product of the massive influence Chinese civilisation held over all its neighbours, or is there more going on? Yes I know that Japan was also infamous for piracy (a much more fitting fact, given the geography), and that during the long civil war the former horse lords became transformed into musketeers. But still, I feel like I am missing a piece of the puzzle.

China on the other hand was facing Mongolia and the rest of the khanates on its western border, thus making the possession of native horse archer warriors essential to just the same degree as for Iran. But I just don't see why Japan kept continuing to use horse archers when its geography blunted all advantages from that type of warfare.

 

[JodelDiplom]

Japan wasn't facing any essential threats from abroad. No need to "customize" / "optimize" their military for large scale battles against non Japanese invaders.

For the fight against other Japanese - I mean, why not ride a horse? Samurai could afford it, and riding a horse is always a great thing for the individual. Better mobility, better overview, why not get a horse and ride it. As long as you're fighting battles mostly against people who think the same way, and mostly small scale battles, that's what you're doing to do. Japan had a lot of mountains and forests, but I suppose most of the battles and fights were near valuable things, and those weren't on mountains or in forests but in agricultural regions or in cities.

 

[Pyoro]

Still plenty of flat space in Japan. Apparently early one when the Yamato people struggled with the various tribes horse archery played some role; for the tribes perhaps in swift strikes and for the Japanese in power projection capabilities that you don't have as easily with just foot soldiers.

I'm not sure how much horse archers later actually fought from horses instead of this just being a samurai skill that in actual battle was rather a smaller thing compared to archery on foot; and you certainly shouldn't imagine some massed light cavalry charge. From my understanding it was more individuals on horses between regular troops; I guess kinda like a "mechanized infantry" in modern times instead of a separate "tank battalion"

 

[Arilou]

I think people are also somewhat underestimating the utility of cavalry in rugged terrain. Especially for small-scaled raiding, Notably the most famous cavalry of the Sengoku era, that of the Takeda-clan, came from a fairly hilly and rugged area.

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

The traditional weapon of the Samurai is the bow, the horse a status symbol.

Also most Japanese battles between the Mongol invasion and Sengoku period been skirmishes between small groups.

 

[Avernite]

Maybe we should flip instead ans ask why didn't they go for heavier cavalry, since everyone with horses had at least some cavalry?

The skirmishing theory makes sense, as a heavy horseman in plate armour is a bit less useful for that, and much more expensive to boot. Perhaps Japan also had slightly less-heavy horses, and so the two reinforced eachother - use only light cavalry, breed only light horses, have no horse for heavy cavalry, use only light cavalry.

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

Japanese warfare of that period is a bit complicated like when shields went out of fashion but at the same time remained in use in a different form.

Heavy cavalry was used in the Sengoku period but it has not the same major importance like in Europe earlier.

 

[Eusebio]

Not all of Japan is mountainous:

The Samurai originated on the Kanto Plain during the Heian period as local military warlords, on the frontier region with the Emishi tribes and far away from the court at Kyoto. The Kanto Plain was the military powerbase of Medieval Japan and you can see how flat the terrain is, which explains the adoption of horse archery by the Samurai.

 

[Eusebio]

Japan wasn't facing any essential threats from abroad. No need to "customize" / "optimize" their military for large scale battles against non Japanese invaders.

There's also something to this. After Japan's ally on the Korean peninsula Baekje was conquered by Tang, the Yamato court embarked on a major military/administrative reorganisation with the goal of building an army modelled on Tang lines: mass peasant levies armed with spears. When the outside threat of Tang invasion ended with the An Lushan rebellion these reforms were abandoned and Japanese armies returned to more small-scale localised warlord-led armies to deal with Emishi tribes which mainly used guerilla tactics.

 

[olm]

In melee some unwashed peasant may stick you with pointy end of his spear, far more practical to pew pew from distance. Also walking is for commoners.

 

[Pyoro]

Perhaps Japan also had slightly less-heavy horses

From what I've read - but I don't know how much "muh Europe, much better!" was in those comments - Japanese horses were basically tiny. Which might even have been an advantage in some circumstances, but doesn't lend itself to heavy cavalry. Their endurance when being ridding by anyone with heavy armor was probably pretty bad.

They also didn't really have much in terms of supply trains, so horse and rider might have to manage carrying their own stuff (there were special troops that were supposed to carry things and pack horses too, but it wasn't a very sophisticated system). And they used those straw "shoes" for their horses instead of iron horseshoes, so they needed replacing all the time.

Much more recent than what we discuss here obviously but it's a nice picture so:

What's good enough for a man obviously must be good enough for a horse, too ^^

 

[JodelDiplom]

From what I've read - but I don't know how much "muh Europe, much better!" was in those comments - Japanese horses were basically tiny. Which might even have been an advantage in some circumstances, but doesn't lend itself to heavy cavalry. Their endurance when being ridding by anyone with heavy armor was probably pretty bad.

They also didn't really have much in terms of supply trains, so horse and rider might have to manage carrying their own stuff (there were special troops that were supposed to carry things and pack horses too, but it wasn't a very sophisticated system). And they used those straw "shoes" for their horses instead of iron horseshoes, so they needed replacing all the time.

Much more recent than what we discuss here obviously but it's a nice picture so:

What's good enough for a man obviously must be good enough for a horse, too ^^

Tbh the Japanese really were lucky to live on islands. That sounds like they were, militarily, just pushovers waiting for an invader to surprise them and sweep through the whole of Japan.

 

[Eusebio]

Tough to say. They might have had the European advantage of being a fractious, divided region on the edge of Eurasia which was more trouble for steppe empires to conquer than it was worth. Certainly Japanese armies didn't perform especially poorly when they were involved in Korea, the united Japan under Hideyoshi was very close to defeating Ming and Joseon and conquering the peninsula.

 

[Pyoro]

The entire situation would just change so much that you basically can't say anything about it; I mean, if Prussia were an island, would we expect them to still have the Prussian army?

I think they were vaguely lucky during the "colonial era", where they more or less were left alone just when their military stagnated real badly (but then they had no enemies so why not ... they basically deliberately turned military training into personal improvement and sports, because that now was more useful).
But before then I don't think their armies were especially awful compared to anyone else. Their leadership recruited from a warrior class generally meant there was some level of competence there, and they did seem to be willing to innovate when they came across something that was useful to them. Less outside influence I guess just meant that that happened rather rarely.

 

[Grandpa Maur]

Ah, the famous Kanto plain. Home of the Hojo clan who was notable for it's cavalry.

Though Takeda once had five guys do some brave stuff like getting on horses and riding up to fence dismounting and forcing it which got transformed into daring cavalry charge

Less in jest, there is not much in common between Steppe and Japan 'horse archery'. Apart from the fact that it involves similar words.

 

[Geriander]

As Greece and the Phalanx can tell you, the geography of a place doesn't always determine how its people go to war. Social structure is often more important and as a military aristocracy it makes sense for the Samurai to become cavalry. Nothing better for a small group keeping the peasants in line. Why archery and not shock cavalry like their European counterparts is a good question though.

 

[Kazanov]

The Samurai were members of the nobility or importants part of society, only peasants -Ashigaru- where there to do close combat and mostly using Yari (lances).

A general rule on medieval-style warfare is not sending your "best" men to die on the frontlines and mobility on top of range attacks are better than having your best men as foot soldiers weilding a Katana. Horse Archers where the MVP of ancient history.

Why not using Samurai as shock cavalry? Well, the Ashigaru used Yari and the Japanese didnt had full plate armor.

In general Samurai were archers more than melee fighters.

 

[Geriander]

Why not using Samurai as shock cavalry? Well, the Ashigaru used Yari and the Japanese didnt had full plate armor.

In general Samurai were archers more than melee fighters.

Samurai as horse-archers predated widespread use of Yari armed Ashigaru though so I don't think that explains it (not that spear armed peasants wasn't an issue that shock cavalry in the Middle East and Europe dealt with long before plate-armour).

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

The mass arming of peasant infantry with the Yari was actually a reaction to the increase in warfare and prominence of cavalry. Formation sizes increased by alot in a short time.

The Japanese style of warfare fundamentally changed within a single generation several times and mass cavalry and arming peasants been a new thing when the later became obsolete a few years later due to mass use of Teppo Ashigarus.

 

[viola]

Allegedly the Japanese took the horse riding and archery from the Emishi, a tribal people possibly related to the Ainus that lived in northern Honshu and resisted to Japanese colonization of the area in the 700s. After the wars against the Emishi Japan did away with the Chinese style armies made up of conscripted farmers, that were never particularly effective, and started relying more on professional soldiers made up of people who could afford better equipment (including horses and bows).

These professional soldiers would become more politically influential as the time went on, they would eventually give birth to the Samurai class and would cause the eventual collapse of the civilian government in Japan in favour of the Shogunate.