Who thinks, that HOI 4 could be a much better game, if it wasn't based around WW2?

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i'd unironically love to play mp where every country starts with the same factories/army/navy

this really has been the promise of the arcadey streamlining from the start

an rts where you can sit down and play a competitive game from start to finish in 3-4 hours

This mod its for you ;]
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1394706337
26Big Nations
No Army/Navy/Air , Basic Starting Tech , 1000pp ,100xp,New ideology and new coutries like Empire of Min , Unicorp INC or Sylfing Empire
Everyone have chance to win ;]
Been playing this mod for long time but only on SP vs AI and now im waiting for update to 1.6
 
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The AI of HOI4 is, in the context of AIs in many strategy games, not bad. If you are a new player, the AI provides a solid challenge for at least 100-200 hours, maybe more, without giving the AI massive advantages. This is basically then in almost all games (especially in consideration of the complexity of the game). Since many strategy games are struggling with this problem (e.g. the Total War Games have a bad AI even after decades of different games, similar for the CIV games), it suggests that the base problem is much deeper and does not depend on the historical setting.

With that said: I would like to see a Civ-style HOI4 with the same combat mechanics etc, but on a randomized map, where you can choose some starting nation with different focus trees etc.

Yeah, maybe I was a bit too harsh on AI. Seeing, how there is no other equivalent on the market it really can be argued to be good, all things considered, but, again, if we account for the fact, that it needs to be good in the context of WW2, setting sets too high of a standard.

Yeah "HOI4 with the same combat mechanics etc, but on a randomized map, where you can choose some starting nation with different focus trees etc" is close to what I had in mind.

As it stands with a little reworking it would probably make a decent (if not better) ww1 game.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Game doesn't need to be baseless, but choice of WW2 as a conflict to model seems to be too ambitious.

Suggesting that the game would be better it were a completely different game is such a bad argument that it's not even wrong.

I think we have very different internal representations of what HOI4 is. For me, if you remove half of the countries from the game map, leave only one linear branch in the focus tree, leave only one ship and plane model, then it will be effectively the same game. And it will be the same for many other people, because it seems, that a lot of them play with house rules (even in SP), that essentially boil down to this set of constraints.

Again, for me, changing historical setting still doesn't change the essence of the game, but I don't know how to resolve such differences in internal representations for my argument to seem not absurd to you, sorry.

I wish HoI4 would fully embrace its destiny as a "strategy game set in the WW2 era", rather than try to be "a WW2 strategy game". Alt history is really the only thing that gives this game any replayability, because there's only so many times you can play as one of the great powers before the game becomes stale.

Playing as a smaller power like Hungary as it would have been historically would not be fun, as essentially being at the mercy of an AI Germany on one side and an AI USSR on the other side would make the player's end result little more than RNG. Going alt-history and restoring the Austro-Hungarian Empire, on the other hand, is quite fun because you can become powerful enough to compete with the great powers and meaningfully contribute to one side winning or losing. Yet, when I try to play as nations like Austria-Hungary I keep getting bogged down in things like janky faction mechanics, ridiculous peace conferences, Norwegian guarantee trolling, etc. that greatly harm the overall experience. The devs have gone on record and said the reason they don't prioritize fixing these mechanics is because "they work OK for a WW2 game". Given that these mechanics ruin entire campaigns with a high frequency, this explanation sounds more like an abdication of responsibility than a coherent design philosophy.

YES, you spelled it out perfectly: "strategy game set in the WW2 era", or as some people suggested, WW1 era. Setting should be used to emphasize strategy and tactics elements, and not take the spotlight. This is a game after all, not a historic reenactment (at least for me, I see, that a lot of people value the setting).

You can always go back to chess or monopoly - almost forgot risk!

Meaning that without WW2 setting game will have a combinatoric structure, similar to chess, monopoly or risk? I don't understand this specific piece of criticism.
 
I don't see why HOI4 needs to cover WWI at all. WWI wasn't like WWII. It'd better to make a completely new game about it.

The only timeline expansion I'd want is one that goes into the early 1950s for a doomsday scenario like HOI2 did
WWI would better work as a timeline extension for a hypothetical Victoria III.

I'd definitely dig an early Cold War extension for HoI4, though.
 
Yeah, maybe I was a bit too harsh on AI. Seeing, how there is no other equivalent on the market it really can be argued to be good, all things considered, but, again, if we account for the fact, that it needs to be good in the context of WW2, setting sets too high of a standard.

Yeah "HOI4 with the same combat mechanics etc, but on a randomized map, where you can choose some starting nation with different focus trees etc" is close to what I had in mind.



Exactly what I'm talking about. Game doesn't need to be baseless, but choice of WW2 as a conflict to model seems to be too ambitious.



I think we have very different internal representations of what HOI4 is. For me, if you remove half of the countries from the game map, leave only one linear branch in the focus tree, leave only one ship and plane model, then it will be effectively the same game. And it will be the same for many other people, because it seems, that a lot of them play with house rules (even in SP), that essentially boil down to this set of constraints.

Again, for me, changing historical setting still doesn't change the essence of the game, but I don't know how to resolve such differences in internal representations for my argument to seem not absurd to you, sorry.



YES, you spelled it out perfectly: "strategy game set in the WW2 era", or as some people suggested, WW1 era. Setting should be used to emphasize strategy and tactics elements, and not take the spotlight. This is a game after all, not a historic reenactment (at least for me, I see, that a lot of people value the setting).



Meaning that without WW2 setting game will have a combinatoric structure, similar to chess, monopoly or risk? I don't understand this specific piece of criticism.
It is just a game - I loved Risk but was too easy to win - I'm an old S&T guy - Campaign for North Africa - remember that - lots of detail
 
I just kinda fail to see the point of a WW2 game that isn't about WW2. Now if Paradox wanted to make a HOI type game in a different setting, I would certainly consider playing it. Meanwhile, I'd appreciate it if people didn't try to take my WW2 game away.
 
I'd definitely dig an early Cold War extension for HoI4, though.

Did someone say Cold War?

We've got 28 (as of 1936) year old Senator Joe McCarthy in HoI4. As the USA's designated anti-communist, he is ready to fight the good fight.

Never mind the U.S. Constitution:
"3: No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States"

(Credit to XTFoster for this observation)

As we've seen, anything can happen in HoI4.

;)
 
I think Hoi4 is currently kind of caught in the bad spot in the middle and could improve both by going closer to WW2, and by abandoning WW2, into 2 quite diffrent games. Problem is it can't do both at the same time and if they try to develop it into one direction the fans of the other direction would (probably justifiabley) feel pretty pissed. Idon't envy the team having to constantly walk that tightrope and it'll be interesting to see if the series maybe in the future gets split into 2 diffrent ones.
 
I don't think it is 'based' on WW II now, with all the alt-history and generic one-size-fits-all-nations equipment.

Remember when a few years ago PDX, I think more specifically Johan and Podcat, said in a stream that they will never include Austria-Hungary, since HoI4 is based on WW2 and spans too short a time period for such silly fantasy?

Those were the days.
 
How many games of the Campaign for North Africa have you completed, in their entirety? Did you have enough water for the Italian pasta ration?
Totally the end - zero. As for the water - being British guess which side I was on. Stopping the Italians before Mersa Matruh was the major challenge - after it was a question of build-up.
 
Remember when a few years ago PDX, I think more specifically Johan and Podcat, said in a stream that they will never include Austria-Hungary, since HoI4 is based on WW2 and spans too short a time period for such silly fantasy?

Those were the days.

Yes, how things change when there are cash considerations in the corporate environment.
 
Remember when a few years ago PDX, I think more specifically Johan and Podcat, said in a stream that they will never include Austria-Hungary, since HoI4 is based on WW2 and spans too short a time period for such silly fantasy?

Those were the days.
Would be quite funny to show them the quote to make them realize how perverted the image of their game has become.