While we're making a Netherlands DLC, could the devs look at the Burgundy-Netherlands decision?

[Mirza Khan]

Right now, if you press it as Burgundy, it straight up turns you into Netherlands, but also gives all your French region provinces (essentially everything you own that's part of modern-day France) to France.

This has never made any sense to me-I mean, can you imagine a 16th century monarch going "OK, guess I'm Dutch now-here's all these valuable, revenue-generating pieces of my land that happen to be French". That said, I don't think it should be simply removed (or ignored)-historically, the Burgundian dukes used Brussels as their de facto capital, and the Burgundian court rotated between wealthy Low Countries cities like Bruges and Lille. It's thus entirely possible that a surviving Burgundy would have become predominantly Dutch, and I think this should be a choice that the Burgundian player gets in the game-one that has an effect on subsequent gameplay. But that said, I don't think Dutch Burgundy should play like the United Provinces-it would have been a strong, centralized monarchy rather than a republic, after all.

Maybe some branching missions in the Burgundian tree that the player gets by switching their primary culture to Dutch? Or maybe a Burgundy-formed Netherlands gets a special set of missions? (And doesn't have to just give up its French provinces.)

 

[noldorin]

The solution to this disgrace is to form another country with Burgundy and then create the Netherlands.

 

[Terixis]

I always thought it was meant to punish you for forming Netherlands the "easy" way. Not that forming it as a dutch or flemish minor is even remotely difficult.

 

[William the Merry]

Right now, if you press it as Burgundy, it straight up turns you into Netherlands, but also gives all your French region provinces (essentially everything you own that's part of modern-day France) to France.

Because there was a time when burgundy ruled over all the land directly with no pu's, and so it was a way to get netherlands to form without it having all the french lands, giving a semi historical situation. As well as making players start as a pu and conquer neighbours to form netherlands rather than just inheriting everyone in 60 years

This has never made any sense to me-I mean, can you imagine a 16th century monarch going "OK, guess I'm Dutch now-here's all these valuable, revenue-generating pieces of my land that happen to beFrenchh

the hochmeister of the teutons wouldn't be happy ceding the whole country to the lizard league, yet you can by enacting a privliege

". That said, I don't think it should be simply removed (or ignored)-historically, the Burgundian dukes used Brussels as their de facto capital, and the Burgundian court rotated between wealthy Low Countries cities like Bruges and Lille. It's thus entirely possible that a surviving Burgundy would have become predominantly Dutch

how so? Charles the Bold was very much french with his notions of chivalry and the focus on cavalry

and I think this should be a choice that the Burgundian player gets in the game-one that has an effect on subsequent gameplay. But that said, I don't think Dutch Burgundy should play like the United Provinces-it would have been a strong, centralized monarchy rather than a republic, after all.

it definetly wouldn't be as trade and colonialism focused if not trying to undermine spanish trade and colonalism whilst seeking spanish independence?

Maybe some branching missions in the Burgundian tree that the player gets by switching their primary culture to Dutch? Or maybe a Burgundy-formed Netherlands gets a special set of missions? (And doesn't have to just give up its French provinces.)

Savoy has an option to change primary culture in missions, so theres precedent. If Burgundy had a better mission tree for forming Netherlands than Holland forming Netherlands, thatd be weird

 

[Arakashin]

Simple solution: Wipe out France. If France doesn't exist, you will not lose any French area provinces/vassals when you form Netherlands as Burgundy.

 

[Ololorium]

Simple solution: Wipe out France. If France doesn't exist, you will not lose any French area provinces/vassals when you form Netherlands as Burgundy.

This is the way. I do it every time I want to create giant Netherlands.

 

[GuaBaiChi]

The solution to this disgrace is to form another country with Burgundy and then create the Netherlands.

No, make France not exist.

I always thought it was meant to punish you for forming Netherlands the "easy" way. Not that forming it as a dutch or flemish minor is even remotely difficult.

Yep

But actually now the student or the playmaker have a video on how to quickly easily make a mega burgundy from France.

 

[Zander]

Certainly giving up the land is not realistic, but it's also something that would have been complicated by the fact that Burgundy was still technically a subject of France. Maybe have the decision declare a war on France with a reconquest CB, so if France wins it can take back cores for cheap?

 

[William the Merry]

Certainly giving up the land is not realistic, but it's also something that would have been complicated by the fact that Burgundy was still technically a subject of France. Maybe have the decision declare a war on France with a reconquest CB, so if France wins it can take back cores for cheap?

If youve already survived the Burgundian inheritance as independent, doesnt make much sense for France to keep the claim