Don't forget rebel leaders! They're the best commanders in the world! How I can't get them but the rebels can is beyond me.
What's the point of superrebels?
- Thread starter Bergys
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Don't forget rebel leaders! They're the best commanders in the world! How I can't get them but the rebels can is beyond me.
I agree with most of your post, but wanted to add a minor quibble that even just after a tiny glass of red wine there is the delightful discussion if the Duke of Orléans, or Citoyen Philippe Égalité if you prefer, was a rival monarch trying to pull the strings. Whether he was or not, his fingerprints, footprints and money are a very interesting part of several stages of the revolution
This. It is just too tempting to look at the mod interface to see if things could be made to be more interesting.
Might I remind everyone who makes comments like this in this thread about the Dutch revolt against Spain. Also known as the eighty year war.
I think revolts in this game should be much less frequent, but then work more like those in CK2. Like they are now, they are a boring and tedious mechanic.
I just find it amusing that I can get rebels that are larger than my total manpower. Why aren't those fighting men in my MP pool? Aren't they good enough for the state? They sure seem to fight good enough. Can I hire them please?
Also.... I find that this rebel issue makes me want to play this game less. Been playing since EUII and loved it all the way, but this tedious micromanagement of insane and weird rebel mechanic bores me. Sure I can hire mercs and use up my MP, but it just seems off that my biggest and most dangerous enemy is ALWAYS from within.
Also.... I find that this rebel issue makes me want to play this game less. Been playing since EUII and loved it all the way, but this tedious micromanagement of insane and weird rebel mechanic bores me. Sure I can hire mercs and use up my MP, but it just seems off that my biggest and most dangerous enemy is ALWAYS from within.
The big problem is that rebels take the death of a million cuts approach. Because they are province based events fighting against country based armies, balancing is a sad, sad joke. Likewise, dealing with rebels as you go from complete peace to a desperate war varies quite non-linearly. Add in the fact that rebels are a positive feedback loop (more rebels -> sieged provinces -> more rebels) and I'd be shocked and amazed if the Devs ever balanced that house of cards resting a knife's edge.
What would be better is if rebellions just sapped the manpower/income of the provinces directly. Then, if not dealt with by other means (like stab and the like), the rebels declared war as a new nation (Spanish Protestants, French Particularlists, English Republicans, etc.) you lose the provinces for the duration, you fight a war direct with the new state (which shocking can do things like make alliances, build boats, and sign treaties of military access), and if you win you can reincorporate them. If you lose, they can either impose their demands (which hopefully can become dynamic, like ceding colonial territory to England in exchange for English support) or bifurcate the realm. After a decade of peace, you can then have overtures to reincorporate the rebels (make peace) for various penalities; if you refuse they eventually either become a new state or incorporated into new territory.
The most fun mechanisms in the game are at the country level. Rebels, if meant to be a serious check, should play there. Not as some roaming event that may as well read -manpower/-gold now or -prestige now /-gold & manpower over time.
What would be better is if rebellions just sapped the manpower/income of the provinces directly. Then, if not dealt with by other means (like stab and the like), the rebels declared war as a new nation (Spanish Protestants, French Particularlists, English Republicans, etc.) you lose the provinces for the duration, you fight a war direct with the new state (which shocking can do things like make alliances, build boats, and sign treaties of military access), and if you win you can reincorporate them. If you lose, they can either impose their demands (which hopefully can become dynamic, like ceding colonial territory to England in exchange for English support) or bifurcate the realm. After a decade of peace, you can then have overtures to reincorporate the rebels (make peace) for various penalities; if you refuse they eventually either become a new state or incorporated into new territory.
The most fun mechanisms in the game are at the country level. Rebels, if meant to be a serious check, should play there. Not as some roaming event that may as well read -manpower/-gold now or -prestige now /-gold & manpower over time.
Wow, there are some really great ideas floating around in this thread, I actually hope the developers think of incorporating some of this stuff.
First off, I am completely with those of you complaining about how rebels are handled, I have had two Ottoman runs ruined by the Peasants War event firing, a 96 Stack popping up in constantinople, combined with Wack-A-Mole in every 2nd province I own. More generally I am sick and tired of crushing a rebellion in a province only to have the same province rebel moments later.
So some of the ideas I like are:
1. Scaled Rebels - Historically Peasants revolts got absolutely butchered. A professional battle hardened Stack just coming back from a successful campaign against a real army should cut a swath through mass numbers of Peasants. Therefore I really love the idea of 'Peasants' revolts involving an easy enough to combat horde, but with penalties then enforced to overall national production/tax/mapower regeneration etc based on the upheaval of the situation as peasants cause upheaval in the countryside.
I then like the idea of Pretender rebels, i.e. the real hardcore type revolts being much more problematic as perhaps generals, army units side with the pretender King or something like that.
2. Funding evolts - I like the idea of revolts becoming harder/more severe being tied directly to other countries 'funding rebels'. I think this would add to the whole espionage side of things which I have so far ignored in over 200hrs of playtime. I think it would a be a useful and interesting mechanic if one power could directly undermine another by using the support revbels feature to cause otherwise minor stacks to start getting boosts in moral, pips and even outfitting (cannons/horses)
3. Peasant War Event Chain - I'd like a complete overhaul of this event. Historically several countries in this time period suffered large scale peasant uprisings, particularly Germany, but others like Britain and I think maybe Russia. I hate the arberary 'hit low mapower' and whatever the hell the other triggers are nature of such a potentially interesting event. Rather than just a single pop up and then whack-a-mole for years, I wish it was a fully fleshed out series of events that you could make multiple decisions to influence the direction of the revolts, maybe even culminating in a change of governemnt? (an underused feature in my opinion).
Frankly this event is terrible and not fun. I know having your country decend into chaos isn't meant to be 'fun' per se, but the way it is currently handled is absolutely ridiculous and has reached a point where, when it happens I pretty much just restart a new game, because why bother whiping out stack, after stack, after stack, its not fun, but more importantly its NOT INVOLVING. I am not sucked into a narrative that my country is experiencing a crisis to overcome, its more of, lets set an artificial barriar to player expansion in the most OP and unfair way possible. Plus, based on reading of some threads, if your someone who botheres to look at game files and learn all the hidden mechanics its easy to avoid. So essentially the people most equipped knowledge wise to deal with it can avoid it, and those of us who play for fun are stuck with this crap.
In conclusion, social upheaval events have a potential to spice up the internal empire management aspect of the game that is solely lacking at present. As has been noted, the game is too focused on outward expansion so that essentially the game is one big war sim and is about painting the map with peactime functioning as a rest period between conflicts and nothing more. Internal social upheaval, with a full scale overhaul and even paid DLC (yep I'd pay) could add interesting internal management decsions to the game that would increase its fun and longevity.
So paradox, please do something, anything, about the way rebels function in game, cuz it currently sucks .
First off, I am completely with those of you complaining about how rebels are handled, I have had two Ottoman runs ruined by the Peasants War event firing, a 96 Stack popping up in constantinople, combined with Wack-A-Mole in every 2nd province I own. More generally I am sick and tired of crushing a rebellion in a province only to have the same province rebel moments later.
So some of the ideas I like are:
1. Scaled Rebels - Historically Peasants revolts got absolutely butchered. A professional battle hardened Stack just coming back from a successful campaign against a real army should cut a swath through mass numbers of Peasants. Therefore I really love the idea of 'Peasants' revolts involving an easy enough to combat horde, but with penalties then enforced to overall national production/tax/mapower regeneration etc based on the upheaval of the situation as peasants cause upheaval in the countryside.
I then like the idea of Pretender rebels, i.e. the real hardcore type revolts being much more problematic as perhaps generals, army units side with the pretender King or something like that.
2. Funding evolts - I like the idea of revolts becoming harder/more severe being tied directly to other countries 'funding rebels'. I think this would add to the whole espionage side of things which I have so far ignored in over 200hrs of playtime. I think it would a be a useful and interesting mechanic if one power could directly undermine another by using the support revbels feature to cause otherwise minor stacks to start getting boosts in moral, pips and even outfitting (cannons/horses)
3. Peasant War Event Chain - I'd like a complete overhaul of this event. Historically several countries in this time period suffered large scale peasant uprisings, particularly Germany, but others like Britain and I think maybe Russia. I hate the arberary 'hit low mapower' and whatever the hell the other triggers are nature of such a potentially interesting event. Rather than just a single pop up and then whack-a-mole for years, I wish it was a fully fleshed out series of events that you could make multiple decisions to influence the direction of the revolts, maybe even culminating in a change of governemnt? (an underused feature in my opinion).
Frankly this event is terrible and not fun. I know having your country decend into chaos isn't meant to be 'fun' per se, but the way it is currently handled is absolutely ridiculous and has reached a point where, when it happens I pretty much just restart a new game, because why bother whiping out stack, after stack, after stack, its not fun, but more importantly its NOT INVOLVING. I am not sucked into a narrative that my country is experiencing a crisis to overcome, its more of, lets set an artificial barriar to player expansion in the most OP and unfair way possible. Plus, based on reading of some threads, if your someone who botheres to look at game files and learn all the hidden mechanics its easy to avoid. So essentially the people most equipped knowledge wise to deal with it can avoid it, and those of us who play for fun are stuck with this crap.
In conclusion, social upheaval events have a potential to spice up the internal empire management aspect of the game that is solely lacking at present. As has been noted, the game is too focused on outward expansion so that essentially the game is one big war sim and is about painting the map with peactime functioning as a rest period between conflicts and nothing more. Internal social upheaval, with a full scale overhaul and even paid DLC (yep I'd pay) could add interesting internal management decsions to the game that would increase its fun and longevity.
So paradox, please do something, anything, about the way rebels function in game, cuz it currently sucks .