Vychegda Perm

[Slime99]

During the 11th-15th centuries the Komi Zyriane lived on the basin of Vychegda, which is Ezhva in Komi. It was simply referred as Perem by the Russians. It paid tribute to the Russians and would later on be subjugated by Novgorod and subsequently Moscow. Represented by the Vym culture, they had connections to the Perm Komi Rodanov and Udmurt Chepetsk cultures. In the game the Vychegda Perm could be represented as a couple of independent one province tribes in a de jure duchy of Ezhva, perhaps split in two with Vym being the other duchy. The land had fortifications. The Komi of this region would only start conversion to Orthodox Christianity in the late 14th century by Stephan of Perm.

Новая энциклопедия

Вымская культура — Википедия

ru.wikipedia.org

ВЫМСКАЯ КУЛЬТУРА • Большая российская энциклопедия - электронная версия

ВЫМСКАЯ КУЛЬТУРА, Большая российская энциклопедия - электронная версия

bigenc.ru

МАЛАЯ ПЕРМЬ • Большая российская энциклопедия - электронная версия

МАЛАЯ ПЕРМЬ, Большая российская энциклопедия - электронная версия

bigenc.ru

Пермь Вычегодская — Википедия

ru.wikipedia.org

I feel like this territory could work as the boundary between semi-settled tribes and unorganized hunting grounds and semi-nomadic people. They should have a connection to Perm as they interacted a lot.

 

[Slime99]

I've tried to map out how Vychegda basin displays on the map, I guess not all of Kama is populated with counties. A full river map would be appreciated. Perhaps more Kama Perm counties should be added in the northern regions to connect it to the Vychegda Perm. Since this would create such a big area, I believe the region deserves it's own kingdom. It could be added into Volga-Ural empire like Perm, or Russia with the basis of Novgorodian expansion. Russia would be more historical I believe.

 

[omega20056]

Where is Bolgar on that map? Is it in the game?

 

[Colin]

Where is Bolgar on that map? Is it in the game?

Yes, it's been shown on the de jure kingdoms map mode.

 

[klopkr]

I support it!

 

[Jackalope225]

On just the topic of the rivers, I had been thinking at the very least the navigable stretch of the Northern Dvina river should be extended down the Sukhona and Vychegda in a way that brings it much closer to the Volga river basin, given the trade and travel up the Northern Dvina to the white sea from the Volga.

You had mapped the Vychegda, but the Sukhona to the south as well seems not well represented, shown here in proximity to the Volga river basin.

 

[Jackalope225]

and really looking at this more, traveling from Perm to the White Sea for the player is far more roundabout than it should be historically, which would be fixed with the Vychegda basin included. Vychegda perm seems like it would be a very good addition to the map.

And this is not even considering that the capital of Great Perm is currently not included in the map without including the Kama river region bordering the Vychegda basin.

Slime99, would you think that the empty space just to the south of the Vychegda basin should stay a wasteland?

 

[Aquamancer]

The rest of Northern Dvina's basin should be added in-game as well. Several Finno-Ugric tribes attested in Russian sources, such as Pinegans and Toimans cannot currently be included in-game, since their lands lie slightly north of Dvina, which is currently represented as wasteland. It's not even a terribly large area to include, seeing that the missing parts of the Dvina basin border the existing provinces adjacent to the Dvina.

View attachment 578931
I've tried to map out how Vychegda basin displays on the map, I guess not all of Kama is populated with counties. A full river map would be appreciated. Perhaps more Kama Perm counties should be added in the northern regions to connect it to the Vychegda Perm. Since this would create such a big area, I believe the region deserves it's own kingdom. It could be added into Volga-Ural empire like Perm, or Russia with the basis of Novgorodian expansion. Russia would be more historical I believe.

I think you're portraying the Vychegda Perm as way larger than it actually is. Your depiction of the Vychegda River Basin stretches all the way to the Urals, leaving no space for the Pechora River Basin, which is located between Vychegda River Basin and the Urals.

 

[Slime99]

The rest of Northern Dvina's basin should be added in-game as well. Several Finno-Ugric tribes attested in Russian sources, such as Pinegans and Toimans cannot currently be included in-game, since their lands lie slightly north of Dvina, which is currently represented as wasteland. It's not even a terribly large area to include, seeing that the missing parts of the Dvina basin border the existing provinces adjacent to the Dvina.



I think you're portraying the Vychegda Perm as way larger than it actually is. Your depiction of the Vychegda River Basin stretches all the way to the Urals, leaving no space for the Pechora River Basin, which is located between Vychegda River Basin and the Urals.
View attachment 581486

I believe Toima are already represented. But yeah, Vychegda in that picture got a little stretched out in the east. But when you compare the size of Vyatka-Kama interfluve and Vychegda basing, they're around the same size. It would be helpful to see a proper river map to draw Dvina and Pechora properly on the map.

 

[Slime99]

Slime99, would you think that the empty space just to the south of the Vychegda basin should stay a wasteland?

Kirov doesn't seem to be in the game as of now, so yes it could be represented. The city of Hlynov was founded by the Novgorodians in 1174, and would later become the basis for Vyatka republic.

 

[Licarious]

On just the topic of the rivers, I had been thinking at the very least the navigable stretch of the Northern Dvina river should be extended down the Sukhona and Vychegda in a way that brings it much closer to the Volga river basin, given the trade and travel up the Northern Dvina to the white sea from the Volga.

You had mapped the Vychegda, but the Sukhona to the south as well seems not well represented, shown here in proximity to the Volga river basin.

I do that in MNR and I like how it gives quick access to the White Sea by connecting it into the rest of the eastern European river network.