The wage situation needs to be rectified sooner rather than later

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The current system doesn’t even represent an ideal version of capitalism. Profit margins can be quite large, instead of just being 0 like they would be under totally perfect, ideal competition.
Perfect ideal competition leads to 0 Economic Profit, there is still accounting profit. Accounting profit is what is normally meant by profit. Economic profit is accounting profit - opporunity cost. Meaning the second best thing you could do with your money is just as good as investing in the ideal competition industry. If there was no accounting profit there would be no reason to be in your busniess at all, and you couldn't reinvest anything.

I think, if my memory is right.
 
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imagine the following scenario. You have an economy consisting of 4 firms, and they can collectively employ a total of 20k peasants. Two of the firms share an industry with the other two, so there are two industries of two firms each. One a higher productivity one and one a lower productivity ones.

Imagine also an infinitely large pool of peasants in subsistence farms making 1% of the productivity of the larger industry.

To get workers, each of the 4 firms will set the lowest wage possible, but that’s still higher than the wage provided by subsistence, let’s say it’s 1% higher. Wages will be low, and each firm employs 5k people.

This is where your train of logic ends.

Continuing the scenario though, now one of the firms in each industry, realize that if they raise their wages by 1% over their identicial competitor in the same industry, all the workforce will shift to them, because of their higher wages, so they do that. One of the firms in each industry now has 10k employees and 2% higher wages than the subsistence farms. The other has zero. Not wanting to have zero employees, they raise wages to +3%, and now each of those firms has all 10k employees. The other firms retaliate. This bidding war continues until the firms start losing money by raising wages any further, and employment equalizes to 5k to each firm again.

This is the kind of competition that ensures that, so long as no firm has monopsony power over the market, wages will track productivity, regardless of how many peasants there are.
But your hypothetical is flawed.

If one of the firms was capable of expanding to twice the size it is while still keeping profitability, what would happen is that instead of increasing wages to take over the employees of the other firm, they would expand and take more workers from the infinite pool of peasants as long as they exist. With increased size the firm gains more power that most likely allows them to strongarm peasants to work for even less, making them even more profitable and allowing them to expand more.

The size of the market isn't set in stone but is being actively expanded by expanding industries. Only when supply outpaces demand for goods do companies lose profitability thus causing them to fire workers or lower wages to become profitable again or get eaten by larger competitors.

So your example causing infinite wage increases only works if the size of the industry is limited when the whole period is exemplified by increasing demands for goods produced by multiple industrial sectors.
 
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So your example causing infinite wage increases only works if the size of the industry is limited when the whole period is exemplified by increasing demands for goods produced by multiple industrial sectors.
How do they expand with the state managing all capital investment? The largest they can expand is the total size of the industry, with everything it already has. By the nature of the game, all industries are limited until the player decides to expand them.
Or, hear me out here, buildings could actually function close to how industrial sectors actually operated in the era, rather than an idealized reinterpretation of market mechanics that isn't even true for the modern era. I don't get how it can be so hard to understand that labor markets are fundamentally markets where prices rise when demand exceeds supply, or fall in the reversed scenario.
The issue is, it's not nearly as simple as you're making it out to be.

Supply and demand exist, and the labor market is indeed a market, but for whatever reason, it may not even be the reasons I've explained here, historically wages have been highly correlated with productivity, and profit margins relatively limited. Disagree all you want with the theory, but industrial sectors operated in the era with wage raises being common
Except this doesn't actually happen because larger firms in the Victorian era never pay the same wages as smaller firms, they actually pay less than smaller firms because the workers are less skilled, even in the same industry. The low wages of large firms is such a common occurrence there's plenty of people trying to figure out the exact reason behind it. Also, any growth in employment of facility would not necessarily detriment the growth of another facility in the same industry, the industry would simply grow to eat into the unlimited population, which is your job as the aforementioned "Spirit of the Nation". We know wages in the industry didn't affect each other too much because the disparity in wages was huge.
This is a misinterpretation. Small and large firms experience fundamentally different levels of specialization and economies of scale. They weren't competing over the same workers. Among firms with the same levels of specialization and production methods, which is what the game represents, wages were far closer.
Except this literally is what did happen and worse, as labor revolts arose all over Europe in the time period. Wages getting raised by strikes and labor revolts, not by businesses trying to cannibalize each other. Because of course they didn't cannibalize each other, they grew themselves, eating into the boundless peasents, and lowering wages the bigger the firm got and the less skilled the laborers got.
This narrative you're creating here is not at all depicted in the economic data. Wages raised with or without strikes and labor action. Sometimes they enabled more wage rises, but that's not what you're describing here. You're attributing all wage rises to labor movements, which is a ridiculous historical claim to make.
Can you just stop? Wages aren't even close to tracking productivity for the 19th century. If that means everything has to be a monopoly, so be it. Albeit you still haven't made a consistent argument for why non-monopolistic businesses would constantly raise wages. Also, as a reminder, it is your preference for economics that leads to grossly ahistorical outcomes., which is the reason anyone is having this discussion in the first place.
The very first of your links says literally the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Using the tables that source provides; wages were growing faster than productivity in the relevant time period to the game. Please don't link thinks that totally disprove your own argument, while acting otherwise. It's bad form.

Before any more discussion is had on this, please just let me conclusively disprove this worryingly common misconception that wages didn't raise without labor movements in the Victorian era with some empirical data.

Here's dataon wages and total profits in manufacturing industries in the US from 1850 to 1890, from the US census:
1669436120213.png


Source: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1895/dec/volume-6.html (General Tables 1-4, page 2)

Here we very clearly see a raise in wages for American workers, even in cases where labor movements were uncommon, such as in 1850-1860. Over the entire time period 1850-1890, we see over a 100% increase in wages per capita (net Inflation in the period was negligible, at around 8%, so this is basically real wage growth)

and assuming misc. costs (they're only listed for 1890 and I'm too lazy to go through older census data) grew at a similar rate to capital, wages, and cost of materials used, the average profit margin throughout the period was around 13-14% as well, which is about what the game has now. Under a monopolistic model we would expect them to have exploded instead, but that's not what we see here.

The fact is, in the Victorian era, profit margins remained relatively low, while wages continually grew. The world was not the dystopic capitalist hellscape people here seem to think it was. There was of course lots of poverty and lots of exploitation, especially once we start talking about colonies, but at least in the case of free markets, people's lives still generally improved as the economy as a whole improved.
 
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Small and large firms experience fundamentally different levels of specialization and economies of scale. They weren't competing over the same workers.
Yes, they weren't competing over the same workers thanks lol. They were eating into the large peasant pool at the dawn of industrialization, not competing with each other by raising salary. The raise in salaries (which are much lower than percent increases in productivity) could very well be attributed to lowering employment pool.

Also, we have no reason to believe that every building in a Vic 3 "Industry" we build has the same ratio of workers given in the tooltip when you build it. A Vic 3 industry with 2000 laborers and 1000 engineers could represent 2 factories with 200 engineers and 800 laborers and 1 factory with 600 engineers and 400 laborers. This is well within the bounds of the game, so I have no idea why you're so quick to ignore it. Unless of course one building truly represents one whole building in the state which by your own admission is not true.
Supply and demand exist, and the labor market is indeed a market, but for whatever reason, it may not even be the reasons I've explained here, historically wages have been highly correlated with productivity
Perhaps because technology increased productivity while during this time of vast technological growth the labor pool began shrinking rapidly to satisfy the growing industrial sector
Here's data on wages and total profits in manufacturing industries in the US from 1850 to 1890, from the US census:
Using your data here the 4 changes in decades claim the following % rises in productivity|Wages. 80|17, 104|31, 13|-8, 113|40. Of course, these increases are not close to being so similar to each other to claim that competition kept wages increasing with productivity. Infact, there's absolutely no reason to believe these wages wouldn't be the cause of lowering labor supply as clearly the wage increases were well below any productivity increases lol

Let's be completely honest though, the phenomenon in which wages do not increase with productivity when the peasant pool is massively large is not some wild idea fabricated by this thread. It's called the Engel's Pause. I hesitated to bring it up at all because judging by your economic assumptions I assume you'll just dismiss it by name lol. However, if other people reading this thread are interested in what, admittedly not all, economists have to say about this very real stagnation of wages in the industrial revolution in time of great labor surplus, ill paste this little snippet quote here and suggest the following

"Phase one shows the origins of Engels' pause, as surplus labour from the agricultural sector is absorbed into the modern sector to meet rapidly-increasing demand. The initially-more-prosperous segment is the technological sector, which encapsulates mass-manufacturing processes, new technology, and the rapidly-expanding urban population arising from the Industrial Revolution. The savings rate rose, as capitalists withheld part of their income and circulated the equity as investments to improve processes and develop technology. Capital accumulation ensured that the modern sector was continuously growing, and labour for the increasing capacity was infinitely available from the agricultural sector as the population moved from rural areas to the city (explaining the period's large-scale urbanisation). In this economic theory, the increase in the supply of labour meant a larger population among whom to divide wages. This kept wages stagnant as profits increased, leading to a snowball effect of capital accrual. The trend ends when the expanding sector absorbs the labour surplus; as it continues to grow, wages increase and Engels' pause ends."

The new 1.1 changes will simulate Engels Pause perfectly in any human played or AI managed nation. Wages will stagnate with massive labor surplus and begin to increase when all the labor is absorbed and the industry continues to expand, capitalists will pocket more income and put it into our investment pools to further expand the industrial sector, it works brilliantly. Judging by the reaction in this thread that seems to be what everyone wants
 
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You don't even need to quote Engels. Wages depend on supply/demand, which (as far as I'm aware) is accepted by every single economic school. This is not difficult or controversial - it's common sense.
 
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We have seen the biggest experiment to prove what we are discussing in China the last 20 years:
1669458434524.png1669458783078.png1669458866638.png
If we believe the numbers published (some people do not trust anything coming from China), we can observe that supply and demand of labour alone cannot explain wage increases.

The total labor force in China increased until 2015 and inflation was tamed below 3% from 2012 onward. However, average annual wage increases were above the inflation. If the supply of workers was increasing, how is possible that wages increased too?

One explanation is qualifications, as industries moved from low value jobs to more qualified jobs, the pool of workers with the required qualifications was limiting the available labour, increasing salaries:
1669459566078.png
That is the reason IMHO that available workforce and qualifications should drive wages alongside Buildings profitability.

As other posters have already stated, qualifications right now do not limit qualified workforce available and they are given and kept without much effort/control by the player.

PS: For the record, Chinese GDP growth for the period of 2010 to 2020 was not increasing, while labour force increased at the same rate from 2010 to 2015. https://www.statista.com/statistics/263616/gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-rate-in-china/
 
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In short, we need some way of modelling that as the economy grows wages do also rise and short of a complex labor negotiation and wage pressures system (which would be cool but far beyond the scope for a post-release patch) I think this is the best way to go about it - a building will still allow workers to radicalize if they don't think they have good enough profit margins to raise wages, mind (or if they just don't care because the workers are discriminated colonial subjects).
Sounds like a sensible step. But I'm glad it is not seen as the final solution, I have a very unprecise feeling there can be much more.
 
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Supply and demand exist, and the labor market is indeed a market, but for whatever reason, it may not even be the reasons I've explained here, historically wages have been highly correlated with productivity, and profit margins relatively limited. Disagree all you want with the theory, but industrial sectors operated in the era with wage raises being common
- The share of profits did increase markedly over time from 17.2 per cent in 1770 to 31.3 per cent in 1860

The same first link you claim disprove my point.
The very first of your links says literally the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Using the tables that source provides; wages were growing faster than productivity in therelevant time period to the game. Please don't link thinks that totally disprove your own argument, while acting otherwise. It's bad form.
- real GDP per worker was 43.9 per cent above the 1770 level whereas real consumption earnings had risen by 27.1 per cent.

That is a growth that is 38% less than productivity, and real consumption earning is the only kind that matters for game purposes. Maybe you should've read the first link a bit closer?
Before any more discussion is had on this, please just let me conclusively disprove this worryingly common misconception that wages didn't raise without labor movements in the Victorian era with some empirical data.

Here's dataon wages and total profits in manufacturing industries in the US from 1850 to 1890, from the US census:
View attachment 918306

Source: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1895/dec/volume-6.html (General Tables 1-4, page 2)

Here we very clearly see a raise in wages for American workers, even in cases where labor movements were uncommon, such as in 1850-1860. Over the entire time period 1850-1890, we see over a 100% increase in wages per capita (net Inflation in the period was negligible, at around 8%, so this is basically real wage growth)and assuming misc. costs (they're only listed for 1890 and I'm too lazy to go through older census data) grew at a similar rate to capital, wages, and cost of materials used, the average profit margin throughout the period was around 13-14% as well, which is about what the game has now.
1850: $1.02B - $0.555B - $0.231B = $0.234B; 22.9% profit rate
1860: $1.89B - $1.03B - $0.379B = $0.481B; 25.4% profit rate
1870: $4.23B - $2.49B - $0.776B = $0.964B; 22.8% profit rate
1880: $5.37B - $3.39B - $0.948B = $1.03B; 19.2% profit rate
1890: $9.37B - $5.1B - $2.28B = $1.99B; 21.2% profit rate

1850: Avg. wage $241.1 | Avg. prod: $1064.9 | Wage/prod ratio: 0.226
1860: Avg. wage $288.9 | Avg. prod: $1437.8 | Wages +19.8%, Prod. +35% | Wage/prod ratio: 0.201
1870: Avg. wage $377.6 | Avg. prod: $2060.5 | Wages +30.7%, Prod +43.3% | Wage/prod ratio: 0.183
1880: Avg. wage $346.9 | Avg. prod: $1965 | Wages -8.1%, Prod -4.7% | Wage/prod ratio: 0.177
1890: Avg. wage $484.5 | Avg. prod: $1988.8 | Wages +39.7%, Prod +1.2% | Wage/prod ratio: 0.244

There is exactly one data point that follows your conclusions here.
Please don't link thinks that totally disprove your own argument, while acting otherwise. It's bad form.
 
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What I don’t understand is what was the logic behind current implementation, why is it like this? Why did they made it this way in the first place?
There was a wiz post over this
Some testers couldn't understand why their workers were starving despite high profitability
 
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What I don’t understand is what was the logic behind current implementation, why is it like this? Why did they made it this way in the first place?
Gameplay reasons. It is a new game, new mechanics. You do not want to scare players with difficulties in the game loop.

Scarcety of labour, stagnant or lowering wages make the game less fun for certain countries.

It is already the case for low unqualified populated nations without much revenue, the player is stuck with not much to do. If you take away the wage increase with buildings profitability, it is very difficult to get the always up GDP gratification going on.
 
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Scarcety of labour, stagnant or lowering wages make the game less fun for certain countries.
Fun is not "I am able to become #1 power on my second game because the game is so easy and the AI is dormant".
At least for myself. I imagine there are people who take pleasure from pressing big "I win" button and enjoy the laurels.
 
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Fun is not "I am able to become #1 power on my second game because the game is so easy and the AI is dormant".
At least for myself. I imagine there are people who take pleasure from pressing big "I win" button and enjoy the laurels.
There's very little to do as a poor country
 
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Fun is not "I am able to become #1 power on my second game because the game is so easy and the AI is dormant".
At least for myself. I imagine there are people who take pleasure from pressing big "I win" button and enjoy the laurels.
That's mostly because the AI for half the world's great and major powers drives them into massive debt in 1870-1880 because it overbuilds barracks, naval bases, and construction sectors and then as soon as it gets the tech for higher methods it switches to those and the costs are too much to bear. It also almost always switches their barracks to field hospitals if they have a trickle of opium in their market, which both increases their military goods costs to insane levels, but also reduces the army's effectiveness from the goods shortage. They also tend to switch all conscription centers to use field hospitals and also things like bicycle messengers so when they raise their conscripts they both bankrupt their country and their conscripts are useless because of goods shortages.
 
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Using your data here the 4 changes in decades claim the following % rises in productivity|Wages. 80|17, 104|31, 13|-8, 113|40. Of course, these increases are not close to being so similar to each other to claim that competition kept wages increasing with productivity. Infact, there's absolutely no reason to believe these wages wouldn't be the cause of lowering labor supply as clearly the wage increases were well below any productivity increases lol
My brother in Christ do you know how to read a table,? The only way you could have gotten these numbers was by literally just making them up.

The actual numbers for percent change in wages per capita vs percent change in net value created per capita ( net value = total value of products - cost of materials) are the following:

Also keep in mind "net value" and "productivity" are being treated as the same stat here, because hours worked affects wages and net value equally for the purposes of this discussion. Including it to actually fit the real definition of productivity wouldn't change anything.

1850-1860, +16.7% wages| +34% productivity, as opposed to your +17|+80
1860-1870, +31% wages| +30% productivity, as opposed to your +31|+104
1870-1880 -8% wages| -19% productivity, as opposed to your -8|+13
1880-1890 +40% wages| +26% productivity, as opposed to your +40/+113

Your wages are pretty much the same as mine, within rounding error, but for some reason your measures of productivity change are wildly out of line. Can you explain how you got those numbers? Did you not subtract cost of materials or something like that?

Using the correct way of measuring the two, wages match productivity gains in the long term, with limited short term variations.


There is exactly one data point that follows your conclusions here.
Read above. You make similar errors, though uniquely wrong, in their own way, somehow.

And your profit margins are totally ignoring misc. costs. That alone lowers the margins by about 6-8% each year. In 1890, for example, including Misc. costs, the accurate profit margin is 13.8%, not 21.2%

- The share of profits did increase markedly over time from 17.2 per cent in 1770 to 31.3 per cent in 1860

The same first link you claim disprove my point.
1770 is 66 years before the start date, it's not relevant to the period.

As I said previously, there were short term swings in whether wages or productivity grew faster, but over the long term, everything pretty much cancels out. That 31.3% profit margin goes down to 13.8% by 1890. It didn't just keep rising, as you seem to be suggesting
What I don’t understand is what was the logic behind current implementation, why is it like this? Why did they made it this way in the first place?
Buildings originally were meant to represent multiple firms, engaging in wage competition with each other, as well as other buildings. Profit margins being effectively capped was meant to represent that. It wasn't a perfect abstraction, but it matched historical trends close enough.

The main problem here is that we're never going to be able to accurately explain the labor market and why it does what it does. Some people will say it's simply a matter of supply and demand, while others (such as myself) say different factors are important. Ultimately though, all that theory doesn't matter, because we have vast amounts of empirical data on how they do function, and that data most closely matches the game mechanics as they currently are, not as they will be in 1.1.
 
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My brother in Christ do you know how to read a table,? The only way you could have gotten these numbers was by literally just making them up.

The actual numbers for percent change in wages per capita vs percent change in net value created per capita ( net value = total value of products - cost of materials) are the following:

Also keep in mind "net value" and "productivity" are being treated as the same stat here, because hours worked affects wages and net value equally for the purposes of this discussion. Including it to actually fit the real definition of productivity wouldn't change anything.

1850-1860, +16.7% wages| +34% productivity, as opposed to your +17|+80
1860-1870, +31% wages| +30% productivity, as opposed to your +31|+104
1870-1880 -8% wages| -19% productivity, as opposed to your -8|+13
1880-1890 +40% wages| +26% productivity, as opposed to your +40/+113

Your wages are pretty much the same as mine, within rounding error, but for some reason your measures of productivity change are wildly out of line. Can you explain how you got those numbers? Did you not subtract cost of materials or something like that?

Using the correct way of measuring the two, wages match productivity gains in the long term, with limited short term variations.



Read above. You make similar errors, though uniquely wrong, in their own way, somehow.

And your profit margins are totally ignoring misc. costs. That alone lowers the margins by about 6-8% each year. In 1890, for example, including Misc. costs, the accurate profit margin is 13.8%, not 21.2%


1770 is 66 years before the start date, it's not relevant to the period.

As I said previously, there were short term swings in whether wages or productivity grew faster, but over the long term, everything pretty much cancels out. That 31.3% profit margin goes down to 13.8% by 1890. It didn't just keep rising, as you seem to be suggesting

Buildings originally were meant to represent multiple firms, engaging in wage competition with each other, as well as other buildings. Profit margins being effectively capped was meant to represent that. It wasn't a perfect abstraction, but it matched historical trends close enough.

The main problem here is that we're never going to be able to accurately explain the labor market and why it does what it does. Some people will say it's simply a matter of supply and demand, while others (such as myself) say different factors are important. Ultimately though, all that theory doesn't matter, because we have vast amounts of empirical data on how they do function, and that data most closely matches the game mechanics as they currently are, not as they will be in 1.1.

I'm not convinced that 1.1 won't still track both average wage growth and individual wages at factories as the economy grows. The only thing being turned off is the profit adjustment that is giving crazy results like paying miners in a colonial state more money than engineers in a factory at home. There is still competition that will slowly raise the wages of the building over time as long as it remains profitable. Any time you build a new industry or upgrade one in a state, it hires workers from other buildings, but has to offer them a certain % above their current wages. Sometimes that is by promoting them, but if the only qualified people are at a higher tier with better wages, the building will have to raise it's average wage quite a bit to hire the workers.

At the start of the game a furniture workshop in Paris is going to have profitability around 35, it's still going to be somewhere around there at the end of the game. (which could be a different balance problem altogether), but from what I've seen from making adjustments in the defines to the mechanic being changed in 1.1 (wage raises as a portion of profit) and running an observer game, the wages slowly double even though there are plenty of unemployed pops in the state. I also noticed that welfare covers the gap for workers at unprofitable industries, replacing direct subsidy to the businesses with supplementing workers' wages.
 
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Can you explain how you got those numbers?
Lol I did it on excel and one of the columns in the equation was wrong by one but that was legitimately the least important part of my comment so its fun the rest was ignored.

Fact of the matter is as such: when a country has a rapidly growing industrial sector and unlimited peasants it causes a stagnation in wages, it's called the Engels Pause. While some hyper-capitalists have tried to debunk it is widely still accepted as probable economic theory. I have linked a paper discussing Engels Pause if you care to look at it. I'm assuming since you didn't jump on the chance to talk about it, you've never heard of it, I'd suggest a read though.

Something you seem to really be struggling with is dates here. Engel's Pause is not something that happens between 1770 and 1850, it is what happens when there is technological growth, industrial growth, and a large peasant population. You say things like "things before the start date are irrelevant" when not every nation is the UK or US.

The game will simulate an Engels Pause until the labor pool is eaten and it ends naturally. Labor will properly be displayed with supply and demand in game now. And yes, the Pause will probably end by 1850 in the UK in your save, you are right on that part, great, we are all happy. In the Home Counties only 1.5% of the population is peasants at the start date. Perfect for you, the Engels pause will end by the time you want it to, maybe even before because the player is overpowered. In Ile-de-France there are no peasants, perfect for you. New York is 9% peasants.

Now the best part about this game is that other places exist! Places with actually a large number of peasants and what the rest of this thread is trying to argue about. Moscow is 20% peasants, Ankara is 17%, Rome is 21%, Budapest is 21%, Punjab is 21%. Lucky for the game and its players, an Engels Pause will simulate here at, believe it or not, a different timeframe than it did in nations that industrialized before the start date.

Many people smarter than I (I couldn't even make a spreadsheet lmao) have discussed the Engel Pause in forums and halls more suited to do so than this one (since the 1840s I might add), and its still popular economics. Therefore, I believe it is best for the game moving forward to simulate it.
 
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The only thing being turned off is the profit adjustment that is giving crazy results like paying miners in a colonial state more money than engineers in a factory at home. There is still competition that will slowly raise the wages of the building over time as long as it remains profitable.
yeah of course there will still be competition from labor supply and demand just as there is in real life, and silly things like opulent laborers in the Congo will be fixed. States that start the game industrialized like Ile-de-France and London will even operate as he wants to because there's hardly any labor available in the first place. The changes will make the gameplay much more enjoyable and represent the SoL of the time period better, and pretty much everyone agrees judging by the reactions in this thread.

The problem is this argument was never about gameplay in the first place, it's just now there's a feature being released that goes against a sort of capitalist free-market idea that really doesn't represent states with unlimited peasants at all
 
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My brother in Christ do you know how to read a table,? The only way you could have gotten these numbers was by literally just making them up.

The actual numbers for percent change in wages per capita vs percent change in net value created per capita ( net value = total value of products - cost of materials) are the following:

Also keep in mind "net value" and "productivity" are being treated as the same stat here, because hours worked affects wages and net value equally for the purposes of this discussion. Including it to actually fit the real definition of productivity wouldn't change anything.

1850-1860, +16.7% wages| +34% productivity, as opposed to your +17|+80
1860-1870, +31% wages| +30% productivity, as opposed to your +31|+104
1870-1880 -8% wages| -19% productivity, as opposed to your -8|+13
1880-1890 +40% wages| +26% productivity, as opposed to your +40/+113

Your wages are pretty much the same as mine, within rounding error, but for some reason your measures of productivity change are wildly out of line. Can you explain how you got those numbers? Did you not subtract cost of materials or something like that?

Using the correct way of measuring the two, wages match productivity gains in the long term, with limited short term variations.



Read above. You make similar errors, though uniquely wrong, in their own way, somehow.

And your profit margins are totally ignoring misc. costs. That alone lowers the margins by about 6-8% each year. In 1890, for example, including Misc. costs, the accurate profit margin is 13.8%, not 21.2%


1770 is 66 years before the start date, it's not relevant to the period.

As I said previously, there were short term swings in whether wages or productivity grew faster, but over the long term, everything pretty much cancels out. That 31.3% profit margin goes down to 13.8% by 1890. It didn't just keep rising, as you seem to be suggesting

Buildings originally were meant to represent multiple firms, engaging in wage competition with each other, as well as other buildings. Profit margins being effectively capped was meant to represent that. It wasn't a perfect abstraction, but it matched historical trends close enough.

The main problem here is that we're never going to be able to accurately explain the labor market and why it does what it does. Some people will say it's simply a matter of supply and demand, while others (such as myself) say different factors are important. Ultimately though, all that theory doesn't matter, because we have vast amounts of empirical data on how they do function, and that data most closely matches the game mechanics as they currently are, not as they will be in 1.1.
Your position has clearly shifted from defending a weird model off trickle down to proving that there was an increase in wages during the time period. But you are still using this to sort of defend the disproven mechanism.

During the time period you linked Labour in the US became more organised. Often wages were raised to preemptively prevent workers from organising to prevent radicalisation (you will find this even in the background of the infamous Ludlow massacre) or by strike action. And unlike your dubious mechanism, we can be mostly sure that this did happen.

Now, the game is shifting towards that mechanism as a secondary pressure on wages other than competition. Whether it will provide plausible results that match your good work with US data is a matter of balance. So your criticism of the change is unwarranted at this point. I think we can all agree that unincorporated states with colonial exploitation should not have higher SoL than your core provinces.
 
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