should Paradox go for a subscription model over a DLC model?

  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

safe-keeper

● ← hole to another universe
52 Badges
Sep 6, 2012
7.384
9.544
livetkanfly.wordpress.com
  • Cities in Motion
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Preferably, I would like to see updates come without marketing for an other DLC and games to be released in one, single chunk, finished and polished at launch.
And, the arugment of DLC funding updates is NOT legitimate, since one cannot be expected to pay extra for a balanced, finished or fun product
All of CK2's content in one single chunk? God, no. Do you realise how long that would take to make and how much this massive game would cost? There are games that do this. War in the East, Steel Beasts Pro, and other large titles which cost from $80 to well over $200. Are you sure that is what you want?

Not to mention that developing the content "organically" over time allows devs to see what works and what doesn't. That's not the case when you have to do everything in one go.

I have no love for putting fixes and other must-have content behind paywalls (looking at you, convoy routing for HoI4), but I'm fine with buying only the portions I actually care about for a PDX game I buy.
 

whosthebestcop

Jimmy's The Best Cop
38 Badges
Mar 11, 2007
2.036
367
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • March of the Eagles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
False. The DLC policy is a negative with the people that click the thumbs down because they want to click the thumbs down. The sales numbers and profitability of the model disagree with you for CK2, Stellaris, EU4, and HOI4. IR, according to Pdox, sold more units than expected.
Sales have nothing to do with perception or appearance or general consensus. Look at EA. The general gaming fan base will destroy EA on every forum and every comment section mentioning an EA game. But that doesn't stop them from selling millions of copies of their games.

Like the old saying goes, "Image is Everything." Paradox's image is tarnished. I don't think it will stop them selling copies of games or even DLC. For the most part is the only shop in town when it comes to their niche. But players countless ask which DLC to get for their games or what has what features in it. Right now Paradox is asking the gamer to do a bunch of research on their games. Or just add all the DLC 100% for whatever game they are interested in.

If you follow any of the Paradox or Cities content creators you will see questions about DLC and which features are in which one all of the time. Its a gigantic mess. Again I don't think it will hurt sales just Paradox Image and Name.

Honestly do think they need to review their release and DLC policy. If a game is going to be supported for 5+ years its needs a DLC policy that is always convenient for new users. Look at Cities content creators you will get hundreds of comments per video about how they love watching Cities content but don't actually have the game because its overwhelming to look at it on the Steam page.

I haven't played CK2 or EUIV in 3+ years. I am many DLC's behind. I don't know the current rules or even features. And for someone that has been following Paradox for a decade+ it would even be hard for me to jump back in. Just looking at the huge list of DLC and all the change logs makes me not even want to launch to game. At a certain point its great that a game has a long life but then it can sour if a sequel doesn't come out soon enough.

That is just another reason for some kind of complete edition. Whether its $100 or $150. Paradox should look into that model. That way their money is front loaded in the beginning of the life cycle. This probably wouldn't include cosmetic, audio and miscellaneous dlc just the actually gameplay DLC.
 

jdavis86

Lt. General
43 Badges
Jun 21, 2010
1.505
684
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines
The industry has drifted away from this because it isn't as profitable as current price models.

Personally, I'd pay a subscription for access to the entire PDX studio with all DLCs. Much easier for a new consumer to subscribe and get to try out everything. Just like we do in so many other modern services.
 

BeauNiddle

Colonel
65 Badges
Oct 5, 2011
835
542
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • 500k Club
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
Like the old saying goes, "Image is Everything." Paradox's image is tarnished. I don't think it will stop them selling copies of games or even DLC. For the most part is the only shop in town when it comes to their niche. But players countless ask which DLC to get for their games or what has what features in it. Right now Paradox is asking the gamer to do a bunch of research on their games. Or just add all the DLC 100% for whatever game they are interested in.
The other old saying is "Money doesn't lie". If they make more money this way then no the gamers aren't upset by it.

You'll be happy to know Paradox have listened to the complaints and have added extra information to the country select screen in EU4 listing suggested DLC for each country, as detailed at the bottom of this weeks dev diary

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...lopment-diary-10th-of-september-2019.1242758/
 

Tapio

Colonel
35 Badges
Jul 14, 2014
812
1.049
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2
Both subscription model and loot boxes are something I'd say no to.
 

Duuk

Reformed Badboy
101 Badges
Oct 16, 2001
6.097
1.130
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
Sales have nothing to do with perception or appearance or general consensus. Look at EA. The general gaming fan base will destroy EA on every forum and every comment section mentioning an EA game. But that doesn't stop them from selling millions of copies of their games.

Like the old saying goes, "Image is Everything."
And you're obviously confused about what you feel like their image is, because...

The other old saying is "Money doesn't lie". If they make more money this way then no the gamers aren't upset by it
Just because the loud, vocal minority on the Steam "red thumbs down" crowd might think Paradox's image is bad, the money don't lie. The people that pay the bills are fine with it.
 

whosthebestcop

Jimmy's The Best Cop
38 Badges
Mar 11, 2007
2.036
367
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • March of the Eagles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
Not sure if nearly 10k reviews over 70% negative for the latest game can be called a vocal minority. Especially since it only averages like 600 daily players lower then Victoria 2 numbers.

The minority would most likely be this forum
 

zaku3

Private
61 Badges
Sep 27, 2019
14
0
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
I am a fan of the subscription services that are out but I don't think Paradox has enough games to make it worth it. Be better off making the games available on Game pass or Origin Premier.
 

Masternachos

the Affable
65 Badges
Jun 10, 2010
1.163
569
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
I'd say I consider myself a rather casual gamer and have never found a ton of DLCs to be intimidating when buying a new game because I can easily just research and see what the big selling points for an expansion [are they still called that?] are... but I don't know.
 

Tryvenyal

General
35 Badges
Jun 18, 2014
2.275
419
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
... for an expansion [are they still called that?] are ...
Paradox calls it DLC - DownLoadable Content

Think the difference/definition is that for DLCs, they should be freestanding and possible to freely mix as you want as customer while an expansion can be a requirement for next expansion.
 

Eldoran

Hoher Braumeister des Erbrauers
109 Badges
Mar 4, 2009
427
243
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Impire
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Darkest Hour
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
What on earth should be the advantage of a subscription. Now everyone gets content updates roughly 4 times a year for an initial purchase. The initial price after a year is roughly 15 eur so 15 eur for yrs of content... That's a fing bargain. A subscription would mean I will stop playing cause I can't afford even 5 euros a month.
 

Masternachos

the Affable
65 Badges
Jun 10, 2010
1.163
569
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
Paradox calls it DLC - DownLoadable Content

Think the difference/definition is that for DLCs, they should be freestanding and possible to freely mix as you want as customer while an expansion can be a requirement for next expansion.
I think it's just about size. Back when everything was physical, they were expansion packs because they were a major expansion, and they had to be to justify them. With everything downloadable now, games can have smaller packs (like "stuff packs" for the Sims), or music or portrait packs like CK2 has. The smaller stuff clearly aren't expansion packs, and it's easier to just call everything DLC now (because it all, technically, is).
 

Cri11e

Bilnoc Republic
29 Badges
May 27, 2015
298
179
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
Gamers will complain about withheld or forcefully introduced features regardless of any approach made. Gamers complain a lot.

The way I play Paradox games is in surges at random points throughout the year. I get an itch that other games can't solve and I binge on Paradox, then move back to other things. As such a subscription wouldn't work for me. DLCs allow me to decide how interested I am in a game or how much I want to reward Paradox.
Don't you just prove the point?
I play paradox games in the exact same way you described, when I pick up a title again like EU4 then I don't want to buy 5 major expansions before starting, or wait for a sale to buy them before I can begin.
 

BeauNiddle

Colonel
65 Badges
Oct 5, 2011
835
542
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • 500k Club
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
Don't you just prove the point?
I play paradox games in the exact same way you described, when I pick up a title again like EU4 then I don't want to buy 5 major expansions before starting, or wait for a sale to buy them before I can begin.
Wow thread necro.

But would you pay for a subscription for all the months you're not playing?

I'm guessing your view is you would only pay for a subscription the few months of the year where you do pay and cancel the subscription at all other times. Therefore Paradox would get much less money out of you than they do under the current system. Bad for them, good for us … until Paradox go out of business.
 

Cri11e

Bilnoc Republic
29 Badges
May 27, 2015
298
179
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
Wow thread necro.

But would you pay for a subscription for all the months you're not playing?

I'm guessing your view is you would only pay for a subscription the few months of the year where you do pay and cancel the subscription at all other times. Therefore Paradox would get much less money out of you than they do under the current system. Bad for them, good for us … until Paradox go out of business.
Ignoring your humorous hypothesis. Of course, what is there to argue about?
 

jamal bakr

Second Lieutenant
49 Badges
Aug 4, 2017
169
2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II
just bundle the games + previous dlc for $40, latest DLC for $20. They get full price for all the longtime players, and new players can catch up for a reasonable price. Price of a movie in a theatre and the price of the movie from the rental shop are different; price changes also on WHEN you receive the item.

Plus the free patches generally screw up the game if played without the accompanying DLC.
 

DystopianAlphaOmega

Reactionary Revolutionary
85 Badges
Dec 28, 2010
1.159
348
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Rome Gold
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • For the Motherland
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
I mean the price already goes down based on how old the dlc is, (you won’t get much, if any off for the latest dlc, older dlc’s you’ll get 50% or more off) but this only really applies to sales. More bundles wouldn’t be terrible though.

The dlc model isn’t really that different from expansions at the end of the day besides being less iterative (don’t need one to get the next), so it’s not too bad, and if it helps Paradox make stable money than all the better. Plus, as others have said, the free patch support is great even if you don’t buy the dlc’s.

And it always feels better to own than have to pay for a continual subscription you may or may not use. Especially if you someday want to dust off and play an old game.
 

Cri11e

Bilnoc Republic
29 Badges
May 27, 2015
298
179
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
I mean the price already goes down based on how old the dlc is, (you won’t get much, if any off for the latest dlc, older dlc’s you’ll get 50% or more off) but this only really applies to sales. More bundles wouldn’t be terrible though.

The dlc model isn’t really that different from expansions at the end of the day besides being less iterative (don’t need one to get the next), so it’s not too bad, and if it helps Paradox make stable money than all the better. Plus, as others have said, the free patch support is great even if you don’t buy the dlc’s.

And it always feels better to own than have to pay for a continual subscription you may or may not use. Especially if you someday want to dust off and play an old game.
I think that Having all dlcs > having 9/10 dlcs especially if you're a infrequent player and '' .. want to dust off and play an old game''. Sub model is great for casuals, newbies and returning players.