What about changes in russian flag? Before 1886 tricolore was only trade fleet flag, and the official state flag was black-gold-white. And after 1917... well, you know 
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Originally posted by Dmitri
What about changes in russian flag? Before 1886 tricolore was only trade fleet flag, and the official state flag was black-gold-white. And after 1917... well, you know
Don't confuse the Romanov dinastical emblem with the National Flag.
Re: Re: Russian imperial flag?
But was there a Russian national identity separate from the Romanov Dynasty before the late 19th century? I thought the Tsar WAS the nation.
But was there a Russian national identity separate from the Romanov Dynasty before the late 19th century? I thought the Tsar WAS the nation.
my mistake
Dmitri, I appologize for my mistake. Until 1883, like you, said the national (imperial) was the black stripe, then gold stripe then white stripe.
For some reason I always thought that the Romanov's din't use thier family colors for the "national" flag.
Do you know where the white came from, I understand black and gold, but white? The source I read says that it was because the Austrian flag had it. But it seems very doubtful that the Romanovs would copy the Hapsburgs!
Dmitri, I appologize for my mistake. Until 1883, like you, said the national (imperial) was the black stripe, then gold stripe then white stripe.
For some reason I always thought that the Romanov's din't use thier family colors for the "national" flag.
Do you know where the white came from, I understand black and gold, but white? The source I read says that it was because the Austrian flag had it. But it seems very doubtful that the Romanovs would copy the Hapsburgs!
I know in the Avalon Hill 'Diplomacy' game, the Russian flag is displayed as white with a blue 'X', sort of an inverse Scottish flag. I've never heard any historical backing for this flag, nor have I seen it used anywhere else. Anybody know about it?
Good to know. I wonder why the makers of Diplomacy chose a naval ensign to represent Russia?
Obviosuly because of its vast navy, wide-spread oceanic empire and complete dependence on waterborne imports - oh, wait a minute...
This raises an important issue. What will reflect the changing of flags during this historical period?
Re: my mistake
Hmm... There are some versions... First - white symbolised the purity of intentions, the divinity of power etc. (as we know, russian emperors were called by kaukasian people as "white tzars"). Second - it was added only for harmony (nearly all european flags w/o cross consist from three colours). And the third - the Austrian variant. It`s not so-unbelievable, because early Romanov dynasty (before Peter I) had established ties with Habsburgs and even sent an ambassy to manage with heraldical and genealogy problems. So their dynasty was approved by Habsburgs as a right one.
Hmm... There are some versions... First - white symbolised the purity of intentions, the divinity of power etc. (as we know, russian emperors were called by kaukasian people as "white tzars"). Second - it was added only for harmony
(nearly all european flags w/o cross consist from three colours). And the third - the Austrian variant. It`s not so-unbelievable, because early Romanov dynasty (before Peter I) had established ties with Habsburgs and even sent an ambassy to manage with heraldical and genealogy problems. So their dynasty was approved by Habsburgs as a right one.
Originally posted by LaMotta
Nowhere but the forum we are on
It is stil Russias naval flag today. I have also seen it to represent russia in some history books.
Will someone read me, that St Andrew Cross Flag is the one used by Russians who fought the Communism after 1917.
Isn't that the black-white-red one?
Also, check out this link:
http://www.geocities.com/royalwilhelm/RoyalistSymbols.html
The black-white-red flag is also part of the German Imperial War Flag
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The 'black-yellow-white' flag was employed until 1883 (in a limited way). It doesn't seem that anyone liked it; the black and yellow came from the tsar's coat of arms which made dissidents everywhere have something to spit at, and to make it worse, the white (which was added to keep it from looking identical to the Hapsburg colours) was added ostensibly as a symbol of the legitimate autocracy of Russia. White, it seems, was a symbol for that in the nineteenth century.
The red-white-blue flag was brought up in 1883 for use in place of the black-yellow-white flag, since people seemed to like those colours beter. Kerensky's government actually added the coat of arms in the canton in 1917.
Both of these flags were civil flags, not national. That is to say (I think) that the army didn't fly them, and merely civil services of the tsar.
The blue St. George cross, AFAIK, was used as the military flag. I'm sure (as Joonaz said) that it was used as the naval flag, but I think it was used also as the military flag (some short-lived states in Siberia incorporated the blue cross into their state flags.)
I'm not certain why Diplomacy used the St. George cross, other than that it looks cooler than the 1883 tricolor.
Well, we do not recognize any flag but the hammer and sickle red flag. Now it is the flag of our armed forces again, thanks to our pressure upon Mr. Putin. More changes coming. The dirtiest flag is the red-white-blue "tricolor" used by the Vlasov traitors. Some say that this was ultimately Peter V.'s choice because it was the colors of his darling Netherlands.
Bottom line on the flags of tsarist Russia in Victoria age is that whichever flag it is supposed to be, we should understand that flags in general had a lot less meaning to people back in those times. Much of the population, for example, would not even recognize their country's flag--mostly the aristocracy and bourgeois would understand, but not the working people. A lot different than today. In America, for example, there has been a "flag cult" ever since the anti-immigration political storms of the early 1900's. Before that period, flags did not even matter very much in the USA.
I have not researched the point, but you might find that most soldiers went to battlefield in Victoria period under mostly unit flags rather than national flags. I could be wrong, though.
Bottom line on the flags of tsarist Russia in Victoria age is that whichever flag it is supposed to be, we should understand that flags in general had a lot less meaning to people back in those times. Much of the population, for example, would not even recognize their country's flag--mostly the aristocracy and bourgeois would understand, but not the working people. A lot different than today. In America, for example, there has been a "flag cult" ever since the anti-immigration political storms of the early 1900's. Before that period, flags did not even matter very much in the USA.
I have not researched the point, but you might find that most soldiers went to battlefield in Victoria period under mostly unit flags rather than national flags. I could be wrong, though.