Revise "Since X is a traitor, no one will object" Conditions For Revoke Title To Allow More Than One Revocation Per Treason

[kaczynskisatva]

With Charles away, Pepin and his fellow discontented nobles plotted his assassination. The Poeta Saxo offers a particularly damning account of Pepin and the other rebels, reporting:

[W]icked men conceived a great crime which almost blotted out forever the shining light of the Franks, for they busied themselves in many ways plotting to put the king to death. For this purpose a cruel conspiracy is said to have been formed among the Frankish nobles. Conspicuous among them, the king’s oldest son madly offered himself as the author of this crime, being more ignoble in his own worthless character than in his birth.

— Poeta Saxo, Year 792

However, a Lombard named Fardulf exposed the plot and reported it to Charles. He was later made abbot of the Abbey at St. Denis in thanks for his service to the throne in this event.[8] When the co-conspirators were captured and accused of breaking their holy oaths (i.e. as mentioned above), they professed a technical innocence against the charge of oath-breaking, claiming they had never actually taken the oath in question (a claim that seems unlikely).[7] This is a rather weak defense, as it doesn't actually do anything to mitigate the charge of attempted regicide.

The court and king found all of the conspirators guilty, confiscated their lands and condemned them to death as punishment. However, some of the conspirators walked away with their lives, Pepin included. Charles was likely unwilling to put to death his first-born son, who still seemed to hold some of his father's affection.

So, despite treason against the crown, I can only revoke one (1) title from my now imprisoned, failed rebel vassals.

In the cases where they only have one duchy, this is managably annoying, since I can revoke that, give it to someone else, and have them no longer be my direct vassal in favor of a more compliant vassal in the domain.

However, it is frequently the case that the traitor holds more than one duchy, especially given that there are literally zero benefits to having more than three dukes within any de-jure Kingdom. In these cases, I can revoke one of these titles - and then what? Incur vassal opinion malus for further revocation of their additional titles? Or, keep them as my direct vassal, plus a -60 "revoked my title" from them? Neither of these options are convenient, so I end up just ransoming them, or keeping them in the oubliette for the rest of their short lives.

Because of this, it is frequently the case that foiling treason against the crown does not make it much easier to get rid of vassals than it would be initially. This is not logical, or historically realistic. Seizure of lands and wealth, coupled with execution or life imprisonment, is the normal reaction to treason. Execution of the traitor's family was also known to apply in certain cultural periods.

Therefore, either:

- Make all highest-level titles (all duchies for dukes, all kingdoms for kings, etc) revocable without tyranny for traitors

- Or, make it so that revocation of title traitors does not change the "Since X is a traitor, no one will object" flag,
- And, allow tyranny-free execution on the same grounds as tyranny-free revocation.