Hello Chaps, Ladies.
This is an idea for an expansion post-release. I certainly don’t expect this to be introduced in launch, as I imagine this will take the efforts and budget of a DLC. I have no doubt that Hearts of Iron 4 is going to be an incredible game, and I’ll be playing the Second World War a dozen times with various different countries! However, as I’m sure you all agree, there can only be so many times we can fight the same war. Many people will want to mix things up a bit and create a war that is completely different. I’m sure a lot of people, especially in Germany itself, would be rather keen to try a game as the Federal Republic, or the Democratic Republic as well! Alas, without mechanics to drive war to happen anyway, I imagine it’ll be hard to play a whole game like this at launch.
Therefore, I’d like to suggest an expansion that completely redefines the Second World War into a 1940s conflict between the USSR and the West, triggered entirely by a change in political affiliation for Germany before the date of 1939. This expansion is therefore focused on three things; Germany itself, counter-factual (ahistorical) events, and a completely different World War. Below are three major aspects of this ‘expansion’ which I would like to see; two of them ahistorical, and the other is historical.
The German Revolution
This will be the centrepiece of the expansion; A complete ahistorical change in direction for the Second World War, caused by a revolution in Germany sometime between 1936 and 1940. This could happen in two ways.
Democratic Revolution: People longing for the time of the Weimar Republic begin a political resistance to the Nationalist Socialist Party. As political meetings are brutally disbanded by the regime, discontent spreads throughout Germany and talk of a coup begins, secretly led by the likes of Franz von Papen and the exiled Heinrich Bruning. Eventually, a small mutiny in the armed forces sparks the ‘Weimar Revolution’ designed to bring back the old German Republic. In the aftermath of the Revolution, the new leaders set about reviving relations with their neighbours, France and Poland, and renegotiating their borders. This involves a defensive alliance with Poland, which angers the USSR, who had plans for the Polish territories and to spread the World Revolution.
A German player that turns democratic will trigger a series of events effecting all the major European nations, most of which will result in the increase of World Tensions between the Democratic nations and the USSR. Eventually, the USSR may declare war on Poland, or France/UK/Poland will declare war on the USSR, possibly dragging Germany in with them. Thus the Second World War begins. This doesn’t have to be a purely democratic vs communist war either. Perhaps Italy, still fascist, will make a ‘molotov-ribbentrop’ style alliance to assist its dreams of Mare Nostrum.. or they will recognise the threat of the World Revolution and assist the Allies.
Communist Revolution: After the devastation wreaked upon the German Communist Party by Hitler, its leaders Wilhelm Pieck and Walter Ulbrict, who fled to the USSR, began planning their return. Cautiously rebuilding support for the Kommunisttiche Partei Deutchlands, Wilhelm Pieck set about planning a new revolution to topple the NAZI regime. Eventually, with German Police becoming most aggressive in stamping out the KPD, public support in the lower classes begins to lean against the establishment. A USSR-backed KPD attack on a political internment camp sparks the flame that starts the revolution and war spreads across the nations. With assistance from volunteers and weapons from around the world, particularly Russia, the revolution succeeds and Pieck becomes the President of the German Democratic Republic. It’s neighbours, however, look upon the new Communists nation with utter shock, as their fears of a World Revolution starts to become a reality, with the international volunteers returning to their lands to keep the revolution going. A Red Scare begins and British, French, Italian and Polish internment of left-wing radicals causes the USSR and the GDR to denounce the ‘capitalist tyrannies’, while the Allies draw up plans to stop the revolution in it’s tracks.
A German player that turns Communist, like the democratic one, will again start events occurring in each country that gradually increases World Tension. Eventually, the UK/France might declare war on the USSR and Germany, or vice versa, starting a new World War.
There will be a checkbox, similar to the ‘Random New World’ one on EU4, before the start of the game. It should be noted that the alternative history events in this thread will never happen if either the ‘Deutsche Revolution’ checkbox is not ticked while Germany is run by an AI, or if the German player decides not to change government. I don’t want to force the alternative World War on people who want to fight the original one.
I’m sure some would like the option to create a Monarchist Germany. To be honest, with only 3 political types per nation, I think this would overcomplicate things. (even though I’d love to play a ‘reinstate the Kaiser’ game.)
East and West
I think this will be an excellent opportunity to introduce some mechanics that support East Germany and West Germany as two separate entities, not least because it provides something for the ‘historical’ side of the game as well (You can’t have an expansion that ignores history completely, after all). I’d like to make it clear now that I am entirely ignorant of the complications that this mechanic might cause the developers with their current ‘nations’ system, and I don’t want to make this sound easy. It’s simply some ideas that I hope ‘could’ be implemented, but I understand entirely if it can’t.
The idea is that by the end of the war, when Germany surrenders, all the land that is occupied by the Allies (left over from territory grabs) becomes the nation known as the Federal Republic of Germany, perhaps with some pseudo-vassal mechanics with the Allies. (such as being forced to be a member of the Allies, cannot declare war on their own, giving unrestricted military access and rearmament being prohibited until the Allied leader says so).
Any territory occupied by members of the Comintern (after territory grabs) gets turned into a direct vassal of the Comintern’s faction leader called the German Democratic Republic.
Any territory not occupied gets converted to the nearest occupied border. (For example: Berlin may be closer to Frankfurt, occupied by the USSR, than to Bremen, occupied by the Allies. Therefore Berlin becomes a part of the GDR. However, Hanover is closer to Bremen, so it becomes a part of the FRG.
If Germany is a player by the time they surrender, they would be given the option either to take control of the FRG or the GDR.
Despite vassalage, this comes with benefits. The Allied faction leader gets the option to implement the ‘European Recovery Program’ (which was historically in 1948), which provides aid to help the FRG recover. Similarly the leader of the Comintern can implement a program of their own to aid their own vassals. Sort of similar to the UK’s Commonwealth investment, but slightly more substantial and designed to repair infrastructure and industry.
Just to make this expansion a little more special for German-nation players, I’d like to see ‘political sprites’ for Germany too, changing them into FRG soldiers for Democratic, or GDR soldiers for Communist.
Now, I feel something can be done about the idea of East Berlin and West Berlin, but I won’t talk about it now because I don’t want to overcomplicate this thread. Something ought to be done though, because having troops stationed there was a big part of the Cold War.
Operation Unthinkable
This is a mechanic that combines the prior chapters I mentioned - the concept of war between the Allies and the USSR, and the East-West German mechanics. As many of you know, Operation Unthinkable was the proposal to Churchill that the Allies must attack the USSR in order to free Poland. This would only be triggered by players and there will be minor events that create the Casus Beli to make this possible, with the requirement that Germany has been defeated. (For example, the ‘Unthinkable’ proposal for the UK, the ‘Plan Totality’ event for the USA, or a similar event for the USSR.) If someone wanted to play a single-player game as either East or West Germany, (or anyone else without the ability to declare war) they could use a new alternative history starting date set on the 2nd of September, 1945, which rapidly railroads the world towards World War 3 within a year, called ‘Operation Unthinkable’. The historical damaged state of each nation and their historical forces would all be part of this start date.
Summary
To summarise what I said, and add small features that I think would be appropriate to the expansion, I’ve prepared a small list;
- Introduction of an East/West Germany mechanic as explained above.
- Addition of unique infantry and tank sprites for the Federal Republic of Germany (Democratic) and the German Democratic Republic (Communist).
- Addition of a new alternative history starting date for September 2, 1945 - titled “Operation Unthinkable’ where the Allies and USSR go to war after a few months.
- ‘German Revolution’ Checkbox for the 1936 starting date, allowing for players to force an AI Germany to fall into revolution within 4 years.
- A whole new experience for players playing Germany in the case of a change in government.
- Introduction of events for the UK, France, USSR, USA, Czechoslovakia, Italy, Poland and Germany, that are all triggered in the case of a change of government in Germany.
- Expansion of the experience for all players/nations in the event of war between the USSR and the Allies.
- (On ShatterFury's suggestion) The potential extension of the start date to 1933.
Ladies and Gentlemen, please do let me know what you think. It’ll be wonderful if we got a comment from the Devs as well. I know that some of this has been mentioned before, but I feel that I’ve gone into enough detail to warrant this entire expansion idea to be discussed.
Update:
Chaps, I'm really pleased that this has gotten so much attention, but I'm keen that we don't get derailed. I need to make it clear that the 'plot' that I've written is just a bit of flavour; a personal touch more than anything else. The focus of this thread is the idea of expanding upon the scenario of a change in government for the German faction, (which is already possible in the game), in order to change the course of the War; to provide a different play-through for everyone.
This is an idea for an expansion post-release. I certainly don’t expect this to be introduced in launch, as I imagine this will take the efforts and budget of a DLC. I have no doubt that Hearts of Iron 4 is going to be an incredible game, and I’ll be playing the Second World War a dozen times with various different countries! However, as I’m sure you all agree, there can only be so many times we can fight the same war. Many people will want to mix things up a bit and create a war that is completely different. I’m sure a lot of people, especially in Germany itself, would be rather keen to try a game as the Federal Republic, or the Democratic Republic as well! Alas, without mechanics to drive war to happen anyway, I imagine it’ll be hard to play a whole game like this at launch.
Therefore, I’d like to suggest an expansion that completely redefines the Second World War into a 1940s conflict between the USSR and the West, triggered entirely by a change in political affiliation for Germany before the date of 1939. This expansion is therefore focused on three things; Germany itself, counter-factual (ahistorical) events, and a completely different World War. Below are three major aspects of this ‘expansion’ which I would like to see; two of them ahistorical, and the other is historical.
The German Revolution
This will be the centrepiece of the expansion; A complete ahistorical change in direction for the Second World War, caused by a revolution in Germany sometime between 1936 and 1940. This could happen in two ways.
Democratic Revolution: People longing for the time of the Weimar Republic begin a political resistance to the Nationalist Socialist Party. As political meetings are brutally disbanded by the regime, discontent spreads throughout Germany and talk of a coup begins, secretly led by the likes of Franz von Papen and the exiled Heinrich Bruning. Eventually, a small mutiny in the armed forces sparks the ‘Weimar Revolution’ designed to bring back the old German Republic. In the aftermath of the Revolution, the new leaders set about reviving relations with their neighbours, France and Poland, and renegotiating their borders. This involves a defensive alliance with Poland, which angers the USSR, who had plans for the Polish territories and to spread the World Revolution.
A German player that turns democratic will trigger a series of events effecting all the major European nations, most of which will result in the increase of World Tensions between the Democratic nations and the USSR. Eventually, the USSR may declare war on Poland, or France/UK/Poland will declare war on the USSR, possibly dragging Germany in with them. Thus the Second World War begins. This doesn’t have to be a purely democratic vs communist war either. Perhaps Italy, still fascist, will make a ‘molotov-ribbentrop’ style alliance to assist its dreams of Mare Nostrum.. or they will recognise the threat of the World Revolution and assist the Allies.
Communist Revolution: After the devastation wreaked upon the German Communist Party by Hitler, its leaders Wilhelm Pieck and Walter Ulbrict, who fled to the USSR, began planning their return. Cautiously rebuilding support for the Kommunisttiche Partei Deutchlands, Wilhelm Pieck set about planning a new revolution to topple the NAZI regime. Eventually, with German Police becoming most aggressive in stamping out the KPD, public support in the lower classes begins to lean against the establishment. A USSR-backed KPD attack on a political internment camp sparks the flame that starts the revolution and war spreads across the nations. With assistance from volunteers and weapons from around the world, particularly Russia, the revolution succeeds and Pieck becomes the President of the German Democratic Republic. It’s neighbours, however, look upon the new Communists nation with utter shock, as their fears of a World Revolution starts to become a reality, with the international volunteers returning to their lands to keep the revolution going. A Red Scare begins and British, French, Italian and Polish internment of left-wing radicals causes the USSR and the GDR to denounce the ‘capitalist tyrannies’, while the Allies draw up plans to stop the revolution in it’s tracks.
A German player that turns Communist, like the democratic one, will again start events occurring in each country that gradually increases World Tension. Eventually, the UK/France might declare war on the USSR and Germany, or vice versa, starting a new World War.
There will be a checkbox, similar to the ‘Random New World’ one on EU4, before the start of the game. It should be noted that the alternative history events in this thread will never happen if either the ‘Deutsche Revolution’ checkbox is not ticked while Germany is run by an AI, or if the German player decides not to change government. I don’t want to force the alternative World War on people who want to fight the original one.
I’m sure some would like the option to create a Monarchist Germany. To be honest, with only 3 political types per nation, I think this would overcomplicate things. (even though I’d love to play a ‘reinstate the Kaiser’ game.)
East and West
I think this will be an excellent opportunity to introduce some mechanics that support East Germany and West Germany as two separate entities, not least because it provides something for the ‘historical’ side of the game as well (You can’t have an expansion that ignores history completely, after all). I’d like to make it clear now that I am entirely ignorant of the complications that this mechanic might cause the developers with their current ‘nations’ system, and I don’t want to make this sound easy. It’s simply some ideas that I hope ‘could’ be implemented, but I understand entirely if it can’t.
The idea is that by the end of the war, when Germany surrenders, all the land that is occupied by the Allies (left over from territory grabs) becomes the nation known as the Federal Republic of Germany, perhaps with some pseudo-vassal mechanics with the Allies. (such as being forced to be a member of the Allies, cannot declare war on their own, giving unrestricted military access and rearmament being prohibited until the Allied leader says so).
Any territory occupied by members of the Comintern (after territory grabs) gets turned into a direct vassal of the Comintern’s faction leader called the German Democratic Republic.
Any territory not occupied gets converted to the nearest occupied border. (For example: Berlin may be closer to Frankfurt, occupied by the USSR, than to Bremen, occupied by the Allies. Therefore Berlin becomes a part of the GDR. However, Hanover is closer to Bremen, so it becomes a part of the FRG.
If Germany is a player by the time they surrender, they would be given the option either to take control of the FRG or the GDR.
Despite vassalage, this comes with benefits. The Allied faction leader gets the option to implement the ‘European Recovery Program’ (which was historically in 1948), which provides aid to help the FRG recover. Similarly the leader of the Comintern can implement a program of their own to aid their own vassals. Sort of similar to the UK’s Commonwealth investment, but slightly more substantial and designed to repair infrastructure and industry.
Just to make this expansion a little more special for German-nation players, I’d like to see ‘political sprites’ for Germany too, changing them into FRG soldiers for Democratic, or GDR soldiers for Communist.
Now, I feel something can be done about the idea of East Berlin and West Berlin, but I won’t talk about it now because I don’t want to overcomplicate this thread. Something ought to be done though, because having troops stationed there was a big part of the Cold War.
Operation Unthinkable
This is a mechanic that combines the prior chapters I mentioned - the concept of war between the Allies and the USSR, and the East-West German mechanics. As many of you know, Operation Unthinkable was the proposal to Churchill that the Allies must attack the USSR in order to free Poland. This would only be triggered by players and there will be minor events that create the Casus Beli to make this possible, with the requirement that Germany has been defeated. (For example, the ‘Unthinkable’ proposal for the UK, the ‘Plan Totality’ event for the USA, or a similar event for the USSR.) If someone wanted to play a single-player game as either East or West Germany, (or anyone else without the ability to declare war) they could use a new alternative history starting date set on the 2nd of September, 1945, which rapidly railroads the world towards World War 3 within a year, called ‘Operation Unthinkable’. The historical damaged state of each nation and their historical forces would all be part of this start date.
Summary
To summarise what I said, and add small features that I think would be appropriate to the expansion, I’ve prepared a small list;
- Introduction of an East/West Germany mechanic as explained above.
- Addition of unique infantry and tank sprites for the Federal Republic of Germany (Democratic) and the German Democratic Republic (Communist).
- Addition of a new alternative history starting date for September 2, 1945 - titled “Operation Unthinkable’ where the Allies and USSR go to war after a few months.
- ‘German Revolution’ Checkbox for the 1936 starting date, allowing for players to force an AI Germany to fall into revolution within 4 years.
- A whole new experience for players playing Germany in the case of a change in government.
- Introduction of events for the UK, France, USSR, USA, Czechoslovakia, Italy, Poland and Germany, that are all triggered in the case of a change of government in Germany.
- Expansion of the experience for all players/nations in the event of war between the USSR and the Allies.
- (On ShatterFury's suggestion) The potential extension of the start date to 1933.
Ladies and Gentlemen, please do let me know what you think. It’ll be wonderful if we got a comment from the Devs as well. I know that some of this has been mentioned before, but I feel that I’ve gone into enough detail to warrant this entire expansion idea to be discussed.
Update:
Chaps, I'm really pleased that this has gotten so much attention, but I'm keen that we don't get derailed. I need to make it clear that the 'plot' that I've written is just a bit of flavour; a personal touch more than anything else. The focus of this thread is the idea of expanding upon the scenario of a change in government for the German faction, (which is already possible in the game), in order to change the course of the War; to provide a different play-through for everyone.
Last edited:
- 12
- 12
