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ConjurerDragon

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This thread is to discuss the Safavids, Ak Koyunlu, Kara Koyunlu, and any other Persian dynasties.
 

ConjurerDragon

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In my current game the Ak Koyounlu had event 103011 which moves their capital and should release the Safavids/PERsia.

However they only moved their capital and the Safavids did not appear on the map.

The problems results from the entry in revolts.txt
There PER has Isfahan (528) as it´s capital and a lot of "minimum" cores. However if AKK does not own the capital and the minimum cores of PER then they are not released in AKK103011 as it was intended. Which would be in most games as Fars usually controls the middle part of Persia in my games.

Fars.jpg

In my game Fars owned those provinces and when I manually triggered 103011 for them it worked perfectly releasing the Safavids.

The solution would be to go back to the PER entry from AGCEEP and use Azerbajdschan as capital of PER and to have only few "minimum" cores and all other cores as extra cores. Then AKK should release PER without problems.

That PER would start with fewer cores than in the current PV revolt.txt would be no problem because event PER 3998 ("The Safavid State") adds most cores for them.

currently in Plus Vltra:

Code:
PER = { #Safavid Empire
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1492 }
	expirydate = { year = 1820 }
	minimum = { 529 533 528 534 526 527 531 532 535 1529 1530 }
	extra = { 536 1531 523 525 530 487 1802 }
	capital = 528
	group = muslim
	culture = persian
	religion = shia
	ai = "PER_1499.ai"
}
vanilla AGCEEP:

Code:
PER = { #Safavid Empire
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1492 }
	expirydate = { year = 1820 }
	minimum = { 530 487 471 }
	extra = { 486 508 525 526 527 528 529 531 532 533 534 535 1529 1530 }
	capital = 487
	group = muslim
	culture = persian
	#ai = "Persia1.ai"
	ai = "PER_1499.ai"
}
So more like that with only 2 minimum cores and the original capital in Azerbaydschan. PER has several events moving it´s capital to the historic locations later.

Code:
PER = { #Safavid Empire
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1492 }
	expirydate = { year = 1820 }
	minimum = { 487 530 }
	extra = { 471 523 525 526 527 528 529 531 532 533 534 535 536 1529 1530 1531 1802 }
	capital = 487 
	group = muslim
	culture = persian
	religion = shia
	ai = "PER_1499.ai"
}
Persian events:

Having that event able to trigger starting in 1419 when there are no events involving PER before 1485 does not make sense.
In Plus Vltra there are new provinces that should be cores for the Safavids too, e.g. Baku and Ganja to have a land connection to the core in Dagestan.

As -1 can be used to break the vassalage to a random liegelord there are no longer 3 commands necessary to break vassalage with the 3 most likely states that might be liege lord. As only 1 break vassalage remains the stability bonus can be lowered to +3.

Code:
#(14[color=red]19[/color][color=yellow]85[/color]-1820) The Safavid State
#Modified By Guinnessmonkey and the AGC: Persia & neighbours Team
#Merged with 80329 from Beta 1 - Korath
#Further modified by Garbon
#Further modification by ConjurerDragon
event = {
	id = 3998
	trigger = {
		religion = shia
	}
	random = no
	country = PER
	name = "EVENTNAME3998" #The Safavid State
	desc = "EVENTHIST3998"
	#-#The Safavid movement was originally founded by Seyh Safiuddin in the thirteenth-century as a contemplative brand of Sufism, but it later evolved in a militant Shia Heresy ideology. Proponents of the movement were eventually able to take advantage of the disorganized political situation in what is today modern Iran, to form the country of Persia. This newly formed Persian nation, with its militant Shia followers, was ably to quickly conquer territory in the surrounding region.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 14[color=red]19[/color][color=yellow]85[/color] }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3998A" #Our faith is unwaverable
		command = { type = INF which = -1 value = 4000 }
		command = { type = CAV which = -1 value = 6000 }
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = kurdish }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = kurdish }
		command = { type = breakvassal which = [color=red]TUR[/color][color=yellow]-1[/color] } [color=yellow]breaks vassalage with any liegelord[/color]
		[color=red]command = { type = breakvassal which = AKK }
		command = { type = breakvassal which = QAR }[/color]
		command = { type = stability value = [color=red]6[/color][color=yellow]3[/color] }
		command = { type = domestic which = QUALITY value = 2 }
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 486 } #Nuyssaybin
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 487 } #Azerbaijan
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 508 } #Basrah
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 525 } #Elbruz
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 526 } #Meched
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 527 } #Kerman
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 528 } #Lut
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 529 } #Tabaristan
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 530 } #Tabriz
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 531 } #Hamadan
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 532 } #Awhaz
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 533 } #Isfahan
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 534 } #Fars
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 535 } #Hormouz
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 536 } #Mekran
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 537 } #Baluchistan
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 538 } #Kalat
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 1525 } #Qandahar
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 1526 } #Zahedan
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 1528 } #Kushka
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 1529 } #Birjand
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 1530 } #Khorasan
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 1531 } #Herat
                [color=yellow]command = { type = addcore_national which = 1961 } #Baku
		command = { type = addcore_national which = 2014 } #Ganja[/color]
	}
}
Unlike AGCEEP the states of Ak Koyounlu and Kara Koyounlu start with turkoman instead of turkish stateculture.
Event PER 21817 must be changed accordingly:

Code:
#(1494-1597) The Shia State of the Safavids
event = {
	id = 21817
	trigger = {
		monarch = 0104506 #Ismail I
		owned = { province = 487 data = -1 } #Azerbaijan
		control = { province = 487 data = -1 } #Azerbaijan
	}
	random = no
	country = PER
	name = "EVENTNAME21817" #The Shia State of the Safavids
	desc = "EVENTHIST21817"
	#-#The Safavid sect found itself vying for political power when supported by their militant turkish Shia followers. Although of persian ancestry, the Safavids had adopted a turkic dialect. During Ismail's rule, turkish nobles would have the most sway in court. Upon taking Tabriz, Ismail, with the support of his militant followers, proclaimed Shia the faith of the land. Religion was to prove a unifying point for the Safavid state.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1494 }
	offset = 5
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1597 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME21817A" #It shall all be shia!
		command = { type = religion which = shia }
		command = { type = missionaries value = 4 }
		command = { type = provincereligion which = 487 value = shia } #Azerbaijan
		command = { type = provincetax which = 487 value = 2 } #Azerbaijan
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = [color=red]turkish[/color][color=yellow]turkoman[/color] }
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = persian }
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = kurdish }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = [color=red]turkish[/color][color=yellow]turkoman[/color] }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = persian }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = kurdish }
		command = { type = domestic which = QUALITY value = 1 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -50 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -50 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -50 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -50 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -50 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -50 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = -1 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 254021 } #PER: A new capital
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME21817B" #Strongly suggest conversion
		command = { type = religion which = shia }
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = missionaries value = 2 }
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = [color=red]turkish[/color][color=yellow]turkoman[/color] }
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = persian }
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = kurdish }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = [color=red]turkish[/color][color=yellow]turkoman[/color] }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = persian }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = kurdish }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -2 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -50 }
		command = { type = population which = -1 value = -50 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 254021 } #PER: A new capital
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME21817C" #We are Sunnis!
		command = { type = religion which = sunni }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 120 value = 4 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -4 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -2 }
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 1530 } #Khorasan
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 1531 } #Herat
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 526 } #Meched
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 1529 } #Birjand
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 535 } #Hormuz
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 525 } #Elbruz
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 527 } #Kerman
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 536 } #Mekran
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 537 } #Baluchistan
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 538 } #Kalat
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 1525 } #Qandahar
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 1526 } #Zahedan
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 1528 } #Kushka
		command = { type = removecore_national which = 1529 } #Birjand
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 236100 } #MUS: Shiite Persia
		command = { type = trigger which = 254021 } #PER: A new capital
	}
}
 
Last edited:

ConjurerDragon

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Last edited:

ConjurerDragon

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The capital and the tradecenter of Azerbajdschan (province 487) overlap to the point that they are hard to click without accidentally hitting the other one.

I suggest a slight move of the capital south so that both are visible:

Code:
province = {
	id = 487
	name = "PROV_Azerbeidjan"
	continent = "Asia"
	region = "Middle East"
	area = "Levant"
	type = inland
	terrain = mountain
	size_modifier = 0
	climate = temperate
	religion = shia
	culture = turkoman
	manpower = 8
	income = 12
	goods = chinaware
	city_name = "CITY_Azerbeidjan"
	cot_modifier = 0
	colonization_difficulty = 0
	natives = {
		combat = 0
		ferocity = 0
		efficiency = 0
		tp_negotiation = 0
		tolerance = 0
	}
	gfx = {
		city = { x = 11767 y = 26[color=red]00[/color][color=yellow]40[/color] }
		army = { x = 11825 y = 2560 }
		manufactory = { x = 11776 y = 2546 }
		terrain2 = { x = 11858 y = 2641 variant = 1 }
	}
	history = { }
}
 

Toio

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should Azerbaijan be speaking Azari and not turkoman

Turkoman was in northern IraQ or turkmenistan and maybe uzbekistan
 

ConjurerDragon

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should Azerbaijan be speaking Azari and not turkoman

Turkoman was in northern IraQ or turkmenistan and maybe uzbekistan
And introduce a new one-province-culture that either the Ottomans or the Safavids (not the Sassanids) need to have?
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...Vltra-Bugs&p=14231540&viewfull=1#post14231540

Turkoman is not always the same as turkomans in Turkmenistan or Iraq but can be used as a more general term including the Azeris:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oghuz_Turks#Turcoman_Turkmen
 
Last edited:

Toio

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And introduce a new one-province-culture that either the Ottomans or the Safavids (not the Sassanids) need to have?
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...Vltra-Bugs&p=14231540&viewfull=1#post14231540

Turkoman is not always the same as turkomans in Turkmenistan or Iraq but can be used as a more general term including the Azeris:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oghuz_Turks#Turcoman_Turkmen
why do you want to distort history and make it ONE province ?..........designate it in its proper regions
 

ConjurerDragon

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why do you want to distort history and make it ONE province ?..........designate it in its proper regions
Your original question was if Azerbajdschan should be "speaking azeri" instead of having turkoman provinceculture.

Azerbajdschan (province ID 487) IS one province. What are you talking about?
 
Last edited:

Therion

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By the 15th century Azerbaijan was already heavily Turkified and the original Iranian Azari language had practically died out. Modern Azeri descends from Turkic/Turkoman.
 

Toio

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By the 15th century Azerbaijan was already heavily Turkified and the original Iranian Azari language had practically died out. Modern Azeri descends from Turkic/Turkoman.
as of today , there are 30million people who speak Azari in basically 4 provinces of the PV map..............clearly the language was around in the middle-ages
 

ConjurerDragon

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as of today , there are 30million people who speak Azari in basically 4 provinces of the PV map..............clearly the language was around in the middle-ages
I think what Therion meant was that the original iranian language of the Azeri had died out and that the people there were already speaking a turkic language very similar to the turkish language of Turkey or the other turkoman languages.

Which means that having Azerbajdschan as "turkish" provinceculture (as they also call themselves azerbajdschani turks) would just be as justified as having them "turkoman" as all of them are oghuz (western turkish) languages:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijani_people
and according to german WIKI
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aserbaidschaner#Alternativbezeichnungen
the Azeris are even called "Derbent-Turkmen" in Dagestan.

The question would be what we want to achieve with the province culture. The only independant state that would need to have a culture that none of it´s neighbours has would be the Khanate of Derbent
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanat_Derbent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanates_of_the_Caucasus
that appears only late in the FtG timeframe after the Safavids start to lose direct control of their borders.

The Safavids should be able to rule the area without problems for 200 years so whatever culture Azerbajdschan has PER, QAR and AKK need to get it. And as the turkmen in Iraq are basically the same people as the Azeris I would be for leaving Azerbajdschan as "turkoman" and having PER, QAR and AKK all have turkoman culture. It´s better than having Azerbajdschan "turkish" as in vanilla map AGCEEP and the Safavids having turkish culture.

While there may be Azeri people geographically in 4 of the Plus Vltra provinces nowadays there would only be 1 or 2 in which they would be the majority of the population and not just a part of a very mixed population. Especially when we already have turkish, armenian, kurdish, dagestani, persian and turkoman as separate cultures.

Having another culture there that is only slightly different from turkish or turkoman would be a first step to have 1 culture for every single province in the caucasus... :-(
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Caucasus-ethnic_en.svg
 
Last edited:

Therion

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as of today , there are 30million people who speak Azari in basically 4 provinces of the PV map..............clearly the language was around in the middle-ages
In addition to what CD said, there are two languages known as "Azeri":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Azeri_language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijani_language

Modern Azeri language (the one spoken in the region from the Middle Ages onwards) is Turkic. Indeed Azeri, Turkish and Turkmen are considered to be mutually intelligible to this day and the only reason they are treated as different languages is because they are the national languages of three different states (Azerbaijan, Turkey and Turkmenistan). In fact the eastern dialects of Turkish are said to be closer to Azeri than they are to standard Turkish.

In the game I differentiated between Turkish and Turkoman mainly to distinguish between "Ottoman" Turks (who also tend to be more settled) and "Persian" Turks (who also tend to be more nomadic) but culture-wise this split is quite arbitrary.