Plausible Alt-History is missing in this game

[.Raptor.]

While cases like the return of the Ottoman Empire and another king ascending the throne of France are examples of Alt-History present in the game, IMO this game has done a very very poor job in representing plausible Alt-History scenarios.

WWII is a story of what ifs, the game certainly tries a bit with cases like Danzig for Slovakia in the build to the war but not enough in my opinion.
And in war itself, it becomes a chaotic snowballing of war declarations through joining of wars and lack of any real diplomacy or possibility of a negotiation without somebody capitulating to influence the war.

For example I would have loved to see what if The Reich didn't declare war on US, but in the game that's a decision Japan makes for Germany.
What if instead of annexing Czechs after Munich, they were eventually puppeted without a military invasion by The Reich?
Ect ect....

Point being, I rather have plausible possible WWII scenarios than say the return of the Ottoman Empire.

 

[Vlad123]

While cases like the return of the Ottoman Empire and another king ascending the throne of France are examples of Alt-History present in the game, IMO this game has done a very very poor job in representing plausible Alt-History scenarios.

WWII is a story of what ifs, the game certainly tries a bit with cases like Danzig for Slovakia in the build to the war but not enough in my opinion.
And in war itself, it becomes a chaotic snowballing of war declarations through joining of wars and lack of any real diplomacy or possibility of a negotiation without somebody capitulating to influence the war.

For example I would have loved to see what if The Reich didn't declare war on US, but in the game that's a decision Japan makes for Germany.
What if instead of annexing Czechs after Munich, they were eventually puppeted without a military invasion by The Reich?
Ect ect....

Point being, I rather have plausible possible WWII scenarios than say the return of the Ottoman Empire.

Rigth, another are a TRUE Polish/German Alliance. After 1934 the relations between germany and Poland are good. But The Allies convince Poland can they protected them, and Poland refuse every negotiation with the reich. With the consequence can all know. But if Danzic For slovakia appear, The Poland can receive german Help for the Battle angaist Bolshevism: German advisor, License , improve the supply for support better the invasion....etc. Now are only a country can colour the Soviet of Pink...the Real advange (300 km in less to do) not are a true adavange in game.

Other ways are a true preparetion of sealion and a effect if a great landing operation fails (imagine the morale if Sicily and D-Day landing fails!)

 

[safe-keeper]

I rather have plausible possible WWII scenarios than say the return of the Ottoman Empire.

+1

 

[TalyonUngol]

Who determines whats a possible alt history scenario? The alt history scenarios you provide sound very plausible so this isnt an attack on your examples cause i agree they are plausible, but the title of possible alt history scenarios is vague and up to discussion.

Now then. Comparing the Ottoman Empire path to a Czech puppeting. The Czech puppet would be a onr and done focus.

And wait. Don't they already have that in as an option? There's 3. Annex, Puppet or share with Hungary.



As for the landing failures. To be fair most of this isnt even in the game properly i think
At least AFAIK. Pearl Harbor isnt simulated right either which sucks.

Would be nice to actually sink parts of the American Navy like in pearl harbor. Maybe even do an event chain that preceeds it as Japan and maybe it fails or succeeds based on RNG and American interference. Oh that would br cool.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Okay so the pearl harbor alt history/event chain idea.

So for America, they could have a event chain about protecting certain areas more, having aircraft in hangars more or on the airfield. Having ships in service and boating around. Better radar coverage for advance warning or Sonars.

For Japan, should they have it in stockpile, they could deploy strategic bombers to attack the repair yards, oil tanks and headquarters. They could deploy more submarines and sink ships that way. They could have more fighters up to cover the skies and use less torpedo bombers/dive attacks and rely on the subs. They could bring their fleet in an invade after pearl harbor. And lets say that Pearl Harbor was a huge success and they deployed alot more. America could lose a ton of their current oil stocks, they could lose a good chunk of manpower, alot more ships and aircraft from their stockpiles?


There's alot of options here that I think the Devs could put in for some good, fun,a lt history.

 

[.Raptor.]

You carve out Slovakia as a puppet, annex it or share it with Hungary. Those are the 3 options.

What if after Munich, instead of outright broadcasting to the entire world the fact that my word is worthless by invading the Czechs, I merely coerce them into the axis as a satelite?

What if I as The UK, accept an armistice after the fall of France?

And before you say UK would have never accepted that, supposedly there were members of the royal family which were cordial to that idea, royals that perhaps Hess was flying into UK to meet?

 

[Kazakk]

I believe they will change the diplomacy system in a big way in the DLC after Barbarossa. To me, it is quite clear they will be improving combat and logistics in Barbarossa. And with diplomacy + warscore system being broken as they are, it might be the next in priority, along with a possible research overhaul.

 

[TalyonUngol]

You carve out Slovakia as a puppet, annex it or share it with Hungary. Those are the 3 options.

What if after Munich, instead of outright broadcasting to the entire world the fact that my word is worthless by invading the Czechs, I merely coerce them into the axis as a satelite?

What if I as The UK, accept an armistice after the fall of France?

And before you say UK would have never accepted that, supposedly there were members of the royal family which were cordial to that idea, royals that perhaps Hess was flying into UK to meet?

But does the Royal Family have THAT much power in order to stop the war? That's the question. UK as it was didn't want to stop the war. They had to stop the Tyranny because thye knew Nazi Germany would want the Island.

 

[Vlad123]

But does the Royal Family have THAT much power in order to stop the war? That's the question. UK as it was didn't want to stop the war. They had to stop the Tyranny because thye knew Nazi Germany would want the Island.

The Royal family, have more power than now... and they slowy gain more power, power can the king not want and stop to climb. For the Island i not think. Hitler, in him head want: "The land to German, the sea to british cousins" And Only Churchill refues Advantage peace offered from Hitler (Annexion of Luxemburg, alsace-lorraine and Danzig, free hand angaist URSS, Reformation of Poland after kicked out soviet and few thing for italy like gibuti and french somalia). For German the real threat not are the english (can see possibility allies) but the Soviets...

 

[.Raptor.]

The Royal family, have more power than now... and they slowy gain more power, power can the king not want and stop to climb. For the Island i not think. Hitler, in him head want: "The land to German, the sea to british cousins" And Only Churchill refues Advantage peace offered from Hitler (Annexion of Luxemburg, alsace-lorraine and Danzig, free hand angaist URSS, Reformation of Poland after kicked out soviet and few thing for italy like gibuti and french somalia). For German the real threat not are the english (can see possibility allies) but the Soviets...

Yeah I agree, the British were never a real target for The Reich.

 

[.Raptor.]

But does the Royal Family have THAT much power in order to stop the war? That's the question. UK as it was didn't want to stop the war. They had to stop the Tyranny because thye knew Nazi Germany would want the Island.

Churchill didn't want to stop the war, not UK.

Give it a couple of more years and Germans not declaring on US and the history might have changed significantly as we know ot today.

 

[Kazakk]

Churchill didn't want to stop the war, not UK.

Give it a couple of more years and Germans not declaring on US and the history might have changed significantly as we know ot today.

Roosevelt was actively looking for a war against Japan and Germany. If he didn't go to war because of Pearl Harbor or Germany's declaration, he'd find another way.

In fact, the US was already at war against Germany before the declaration. The mustache man merely made it official. The US was lending all kinds of supplies and were already fighting in the ocean.
Democracy never existed. You merely choose the representatives of your master.

 

[.Raptor.]

Roosevelt was actively looking for a war against Japan and Germany. If he didn't go to war because of Pearl Harbor or Germany's declaration, he'd find another way.

In fact, the US was already at war against Germany before the declaration. The mustache man merely made it official. The US was lending all kinds of supplies and were already fighting in the ocean.
Democracy never existed. You merely choose the representatives of your master.

Gotta diasagree with you mate, an offensive war was out of the question, otherwise such intervention would have happened earlier.

They were supporting the UK, that's true but the reason D-Day happened was because somebody in Berlin, per usual of course had to undermine the efforts of Germany's top diplomats and military personal.

 

[Tsavong]

Churchill didn't want to stop the war

it was not sure that Churchill would be the new prime minister. So if they appointed someone else, like Halifax for example or if halifax would just gather more support for his position, things would have been different.
(I recently read a book from Antony Beevor and there he wrote that Halifax wanted to contact Germany with the help of Mussolini to start negotiations)

 

[Vlad123]

Gotta diasagree with you mate, an offensive war was out of the question, otherwise such intervention would have happened earlier.

They were supporting the UK, that's true but the reason D-Day happened was because somebody in Berlin, per usual of course had to undermine the efforts of Germany's top diplomats and military personal.

Rigth,storically if URSS not receive the LL they fall, the LL not are only weapons + ammo...are boots, uniform, industrial capacity, fuel for Air, normal fuel...TONS and TONS of equipment, and if more half German army are blocked in the east, the they are today in UK and say "mmm maybay next year is possible landing".

Yes: Churchill was appointed, but not was force to Retire, Chumberlain retires...all historician say "if Churchill die in the boeran war (and him are very soon to die in these war) the UK surrender).
Anyway, if Germany not need to save italy and lost one month (1 week to crack down the YUGO and 3 week to crackdown the grecee can have the support of english, incluse the code breaker). they can DOW to URSS one month before...and i think they take Moscow, and Moscow are a very important rail hub...

 

[TalyonUngol]

Well, I don't know mucha bout this particular topic of the UK not wanting to surrender or would surrender to be sure about my position on it so I'll cede that this is a viable and plausible alt-history scenario.

The question would be now... with the USA wanting to enter the war to stop the Germans((At least FDR did according to the Arsenal of Democracy speech)) and the UK having an armistice... would the UK be willing to give the Americans a landing zone in their islands in order to do DDay?

 

[Kazakk]

Rigth,storically if URSS not receive the LL they fall, the LL not are only weapons + ammo...are boots, uniform, industrial capacity, fuel for Air, normal fuel...TONS and TONS of equipment, and if more half German army are blocked in the east, the they are today in UK and say "mmm maybay next year is possible landing".

Yes: Churchill was appointed, but not was force to Retire, Chumberlain retires...all historician say "if Churchill die in the boeran war (and him are very soon to die in these war) the UK surrender).
Anyway, if Germany not need to save italy and lost one month (1 week to crack down the YUGO and 3 week to crackdown the grecee can have the support of english, incluse the code breaker). they can DOW to URSS one month before...and i think they take Moscow, and Moscow are a very important rail hub...

Even if both Yugo and Greece had surrendered instantly, without a fight, Germany would still have invaded when they did. Any invasion before 22nd of june would have met an extremely muddy terrain, terrible for a panzer advance.

 

[Vlad123]

Even if both Yugo and Greece had surrendered instantly, without a fight, Germany would still have invaded when they did. Any invasion before 22nd of june would have met an extremely muddy terrain, terrible for a panzer advance.

but they have more troops, more troops prepared (and occupy a country are a cost of man)

 

[Vlad123]

Well, I don't know mucha bout this particular topic of the UK not wanting to surrender or would surrender to be sure about my position on it so I'll cede that this is a viable and plausible alt-history scenario.

The question would be now... with the USA wanting to enter the war to stop the Germans((At least FDR did according to the Arsenal of Democracy speech)) and the UK having an armistice... would the UK be willing to give the Americans a landing zone in their islands in order to do DDay?

In terms of gameplay: no, now not is possible.
In terms of IRL, in this case if Germany not DOW to USA, USA cannot DOW to GER because "Japan First"

 

[Rashie]

Gotta diasagree with you mate, an offensive war was out of the question, otherwise such intervention would have happened earlier.

They were supporting the UK, that's true but the reason D-Day happened was because somebody in Berlin, per usual of course had to undermine the efforts of Germany's top diplomats and military personal.

If Japan has attacked the US, chances the US would go to war with Germany too, even without a war declaration coming from Germany on them, is sky high. That development wasn't particularly contingent on the germans declaring war on the US, even if politically convenient for US leadership to formally get involved in Europe too.