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AlaZenH

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Mar 12, 2023
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Palestine holds a significant place in history, culture, and geopolitics, and its distinct cultural identity deserves representation within the game. Just as you have recognized the unique cultural and historical significance of other regions by including cores for Lebanon (which had an identity just as distinct like the palestinian one during the time). Therefore i believe it is equally important to acknowledge the presence of Palestinian culture and heritage.

I understand that the update is around the corner right now. However, I believe that the addition of Palestinian cores to Palestine wouldn't hurt the gameplay experience just like the inclusion of Lebanese cores doesn't alter the gameplay experience significantly.

In conclusion, I urge the development team to seriously consider this idea and explore the possibility of adding Palestinian cores to Palestine to the game.

Here is also an exert about the Palestinian culture, extending to before the start date of EU4:

The Palestinian identity
Was not new
They did not find a new identity illan
It was there way before
Israeli historian Haim Gerber, a professor of Islamic History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, traces Arab nationalism back to a 17th-century religious leader, Mufti Khayr al-Din al-Ramli (1585–1671) who was born and lived in Al-Ramla in Ottoman Palestine. He claims that Khayr al-Din al-Ramli’s religious edicts (fatwa, plural fatawa), collected into final form in 1670 under the name al-Fatawa al-Khayriyah, attest to territorial awareness:

“These fatawa are a contemporary record of the time, and also give a complex view of agrarian relations.”

The 1670 collection mentions the concepts Filastin, biladuna (our country), al-Sham (Syria), Misr (Egypt), and diyar (country), in senses that appear to go beyond objective geography.
Zahir al-Umar al-Zaydani, alternatively spelled Daher al-Omar or Dahir al-Umar (Arabic: ظاهر العمر الزيداني‎, romanized: Ẓāhir al-ʿUmar az-Zaydānī, 1689/90 – 21 or 22 August 1775) was the autonomous Arab ruler of northern Palestine in the mid-18th century.

Zahir’s founding of a virtually autonomous state in Palestine has made him a national hero among Palestinians today
Zahir was the de facto ruler over Palestine
10th century geographer al-Maqdisī, clearly saw himself as Palestinian:

One day I sat next to some builders in Shiraz; they were chiselling with poor picks and their stones were the thickness of clay. If the stone is even, they would draw a line with the pick and perhaps this would cause it to break. But if the line was straight, they would set it in place. I told them: ‘If you use a wedge, you can make a hole in the stone.’ And I told them of the construction in Palestine and I engaged them in matters of construction.

“The master stone-cutter asked me: Are you Egyptian?”

“I said: No, I am Palestinian.”
17048-HUG.jpg


Sincerely, Adam
 
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Anyone surprised this is this poster’s first and only post so far?
 
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I have to say I agree with this. Even if the whole of the Levant is represented by "Syrian" culture in 1444, Lebanon still has cores despite there being no Lebanese culture in-game. You really can't have both a Lebanon tag and not have a Palestinian one. With the situation in the Middle East right now, I can see why paradox would shy away from such an addition, though.

EDIT: Also, OP could not have created his account solely for creating this post, because he has been lurking here since March.
 
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I have to say I agree with this. Even if the whole of the Levant is represented by "Syrian" culture in 1444, Lebanon still has cores despite there being no Lebanese culture in-game. You really can't have both a Lebanon tag and not have a Palestinian one. With the situation in the Middle East right now, I can see why paradox would shy away from such an addition, though.

EDIT: Also, OP could not have created his account solely for creating this post, because he has been lurking here since March.
Yes, this is the case. I didnt feel the need to post anything before this.
 
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I have to say I agree with this. Even if the whole of the Levant is represented by "Syrian" culture in 1444, Lebanon still has cores despite there being no Lebanese culture in-game. You really can't have both a Lebanon tag and not have a Palestinian one. With the situation in the Middle East right now, I can see why paradox would shy away from such an addition, though.
You can do both, as mount lebanon emirate has been a tag in previous paradox games. Meanwhile palestine rarely in
EDIT: Also, OP could not have created his account solely for creating this post, because he has been lurking here since March.
So he made a sock puppet in advance, cool
 
What is the point about Talking about my account, its entirely irrelevant, this is my only account and i have my hoi4 account linked with all dlc's. Please stay on topic
 
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You can do both, as mount lebanon emirate has been a tag in previous paradox games. Meanwhile palestine rarely in
Just because a nation did not exist during the era of 1444-1821 does not mean that it should not be added; we have Austria-hungary being added, for example, and players can still revive the Roman Empire, or the Mongol Empire; in addition, as OP has shown, there were already several indications of a distinct Palestinian identity at the time of the game start; should we remove the Swabian tag from the game since Swabia is German, did not exist in timeline, and we already have a German tag? No, we shouldn't, because we have evidence of a Swabian identity.
 
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Just because a nation did not exist during the era of 1444-1821 does not mean that it should not be added; we have Austria-hungary being added
yes its addition is beyond stupid. Omani zanzibar was also really dumb, and teuton mongols too.
, for example, and players can still revive the Roman Empire, or the Mongol Empire; in addition, as OP has shown, there were already several indications of a distinct Palestinian identity at the time of the game start; should we remove the Swabian tag from the game since Swabia is German, did not exist in timeline, and we already have a German tag? No, we shouldn't, because we have evidence of a Swabian identity.
We also have a duchy of swabia as a recognisable political unit until the death of the hohenstaufens, with its legacy surviving as the swabian circle, unlike palestine
 
yes its addition is beyond stupid. Omani zanzibar was also really dumb, and teuton mongols too.

We also have a duchy of swabia as a recognisable political unit until the death of the hohenstaufens, with its legacy surviving as the swabian circle, unlike palestine
The Swabian circle was admiinistrative; similarly, Palestine was also an administrative division.
 
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yes its addition is beyond stupid. Omani zanzibar was also really dumb, and teuton mongols too.

We also have a duchy of swabia as a recognisable political unit until the death of the hohenstaufens, with its legacy surviving as the swabian circle, unlike palestine
Omani-Zanzibar is. The least stupid, and that has since been renamed to just Zanzibar, to represent a shifting center of power (you can change the name back).
Remember that Oman used to own massive swathes of Africa until 1856.
1715153603582.png


To clarify: The title of Duke of Swabia was still contested even during EU4's time frame, so, yea, not the best argument from overthetop.

You can do both, as mount lebanon emirate has been a tag in previous paradox games. Meanwhile palestine rarely in

So he made a sock puppet in advance, cool
He literally also exists on the Official Discord (and we have had our own seperate discussion there), so this is nonsense and isn't a valid argument against the whole discussion regardless (it falls under Ad Hominem).

I have to say I agree with this. Even if the whole of the Levant is represented by "Syrian" culture in 1444, Lebanon still has cores despite there being no Lebanese culture in-game.
Sadly, not the gotta you quite think it to be (though we'll get back to this one). Lebanon (the tag) loosely represents the autonomous Buhturid and Ma'nid emirates in the region under the Mamluks and Ottomans, and the tag uses the banner of the latter:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buhturids
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma'n_dynasty

We also have a duchy of swabia as a recognisable political unit until the death of the hohenstaufens, with its legacy surviving as the swabian circle, unlike palestine
Cycling back to this. Well, uh. Palestine *sorta* existed and had notable times of autonomy within the EU4 time frame, as brought up on the Discord. I will link two Wikipedia pages, one of the Ottoman province (which wasn't named Palestine due to the Ottomans naming provinces after their capitals, however the name Palestine was thrown around often*), and one of an autonomous ruler and his dynasty (brought to my attention BY OP). Lebanon's existence in EU4 is a point in favor of a Palestine releasable given the similar autonomy of the Al-Zayadina clan who, like the Lebanon emirs, had to be put down by force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Sanjak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Zayadina

*
1715154447980.png
 
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Good point about the duchy title. And yes, Lebanon does have some precedent.
 
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