Overland Supply and Transit Rights

[Palmerdale]

I've gotten the HOI3 bug again, and am running into something I haven't seen before.

As Italy in TFH, I conquered Yugoslavia and Greece, pushed the UK out of Eqypt and conquered Iraq. So far, so good. Now, I want to take my Iraq invasion force against Russia near Batumi. The plan was to invade Persia. That dies pretty quickly due to lack of supply. It would take approximately 1 year to build infrastructure to bolster the roads from Alexandria to Bagdad to level 4, maybe longer, and that's no guarantee that it would get enough supply there quickly enough.

My second idea was to simply walk through Turkey using the existing Transit Rights. I moved the army from Iraq across Turkey to the Russian Border. All units were at 0 Org and wouldn't recover. I ported a marine unit via navy to a German base in Odessa and successfully invaded Batumi. That was quickly thrown out as none of the troops on the border could do anything to contribute.

So, I started trying to figure out how supply worked for units in countries where I only had transit rights. So, I'll ask here. Does anyone have a good idea of how supply works across neutral countries?

Things I have noticed.

• The supply path seemed to follow the unit path across Turkey from iraq, but doesn't seem to maintain once the unit moves to another province.
• Both Supply Organization and Supply Transportation techs are at 1938 levels, learning 1940 levels. (It's early 1941).
• Supplemental air supply can't reach from Iraq to the border of Russia -- I'd need to research some range (Large Fuel Tank, probably 2 levels)
• I can't find a way to manually create a convoy to a neutral port. (to Trabzon, Turkey, for instance)

I could simply back up and take Turkey and draw supply overland (thru Greece) (supplemented by shipping) as I have done in the past. Or back up and plan/build for an amphibious invasion (which I've also done). I just wanted to try an overland assault.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Paglia]

I've gotten the HOI3 bug again, and am running into something I haven't seen before.

As Italy in TFH, I conquered Yugoslavia and Greece, pushed the UK out of Eqypt and conquered Iraq. So far, so good. Now, I want to take my Iraq invasion force against Russia near Batumi. The plan was to invade Persia. That dies pretty quickly due to lack of supply. It would take approximately 1 year to build infrastructure to bolster the roads from Alexandria to Bagdad to level 4, maybe longer, and that's no guarantee that it would get enough supply there quickly enough.

My second idea was to simply walk through Turkey using the existing Transit Rights. I moved the army from Iraq across Turkey to the Russian Border. All units were at 0 Org and wouldn't recover. I ported a marine unit via navy to a German base in Odessa and successfully invaded Batumi. That was quickly thrown out as none of the troops on the border could do anything to contribute.

So, I started trying to figure out how supply worked for units in countries where I only had transit rights. So, I'll ask here. Does anyone have a good idea of how supply works across neutral countries?

Things I have noticed.

• The supply path seemed to follow the unit path across Turkey from iraq, but doesn't seem to maintain once the unit moves to another province.
• Both Supply Organization and Supply Transportation techs are at 1938 levels, learning 1940 levels. (It's early 1941).
• Supplemental air supply can't reach from Iraq to the border of Russia -- I'd need to research some range (Large Fuel Tank, probably 2 levels)
• I can't find a way to manually create a convoy to a neutral port. (to Trabzon, Turkey, for instance)

I could simply back up and take Turkey and draw supply overland (thru Greece) (supplemented by shipping) as I have done in the past. Or back up and plan/build for an amphibious invasion (which I've also done). I just wanted to try an overland assault.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

You have no supply while you are in a country that granted you transit right
So your units will gradually lose all their organisation and supply reserve
Also, you can't attack while moving trough or from a territory using given transit rights

 

[j_k_k]

I get around the problem in two ways. I would not do this if I were permitted to build infra in allied countries, and as foreign aid to neutrals (how could they not want a new railroad for free?), but I'm not.

First, I never ask for transit rights. If I want to be able to transit a country, I invade it.

In some cases, such as creating Croatia, I make them cede me some of their territory using the console. I don't go overboard with this. As a rule, any time a minor ally has territory that I really, really need for a supply line, I consider that I have given them an ultimatum and they bowed to the inevitable. Then I can build the infra that I will later need in order to send supplies where they must go.

 

[Palmerdale]

You have no supply while you are in a country that granted you transit right
So your units will gradually lose all their organisation and supply reserve
Also, you can't attack while moving trough or from a territory using given transit rights

I know the 'no invading from transited territory' restriction. I invaded Batumi from Odessa, and moved troops waiting in Turkey into Batumi. Those troops has no ORG from their stay in Turkey, though and were thrown out immediately along with the (minimalistic) invasion force (4xMar). That makes travel through any neutral country pointless, as you're going to be out of supply for anything other than the briefest of routes. So, it seems to be totally impractical to reinforce a naval beachhead from overland through a neutral country. I had the supply and convoys available to supply from Batumi, just not enough time to replenish the waiting forces (2x(3xInf, Art) + (3xMtn, Art)). The trip through and wait in Turkey made that tactic invalid.

I may revisit the Persian invasion, if I have to invade. It will take more Infrastructure, and delay the push into the southern mountains of Russia by a year, maybe more.

I get around the problem in two ways. I would not do this if I were permitted to build infra in allied countries, and as foreign aid to neutrals (how could they not want a new railroad for free?), but I'm not.

First, I never ask for transit rights. If I want to be able to transit a country, I invade it.

In some cases, such as creating Croatia, I make them cede me some of their territory using the console. I don't go overboard with this. As a rule, any time a minor ally has territory that I really, really need for a supply line, I consider that I have given them an ultimatum and they bowed to the inevitable. Then I can build the infra that I will later need in order to send supplies where they must go.

I was looking for something other than the brute force approach of invading every country in order to establish overland supply. But it looks like brute force is the only real option the game permits. I agree with you about the building Infrastructure in Neutral countries. I think Transit rights should include moving supplies as well as troops through the country. That should at least be a diplomatic option(s). Build Infrastructure and Supply Line Transit. (The US pretty much did the build infrastructure thing with the Panama Canal.)

Thanks, everyone for the help.

 

[Paglia]

What I often do is have a naval base or an airfield in my "ready to deploy" pool
So, when I invade and capture a territory, I put them in the province and as soon as it is ready, I send transport there or air transport with para units there and unload them

 

[Kovax]

As Paglia suggests, pre-building a port or airfield will give you a temporary limited supply route. Your units marching through Turkey would not have much or any ORG when they arrive at your landing zone, but would at least regain it over time. The invasion force needs to be large enough to hold until then, or else you need to ferry in more troops via air or sea to support them before they're thrown back into the sea or Turkey.

My suggestion would be to land the Marines to take a coastal province (port or not), place an airfield (and port if needed) IMMEDIATELY, and fly in another division or two (regular INF, probably without ART due to size limitations) to the airfield (only Paras can air-drop, but any division that fits can fly into a province with an airfield). That might be sufficient to hold the province(s) until your troops in Turkey can waltz in and gradually regain ORG, and additional forces and supplies can be brought in by sea. You really can't depend heavily on transit rights, unless you've already got a secure area on the other side.

 

[Palmerdale]

So, brute force? That's not really satisfying, especially since I was looking for an alternative to brute force.

 

[j_k_k]

So, brute force? That's not really satisfying, especially since I was looking for an alternative to brute force.

Workarounds are rarely satisfying, in my experience, but they do allow us to get on with things. Sometimes that's all we can get.

 

[Paglia]

(...), but any division that fits can fly into a province with an airfield (...)

I just learnt something here !
Never tought to put something else then paras in them

 

[Wraith11B]

Wait, I didn't think that anything other than Paras were air-transportable?

 

[Kovax]

Wait, I didn't think that anything other than Paras were air-transportable?

I moved regular troops via air transport in a game long ago, but that was an earlier expansion (probably Semper Fi). I know you can't air-drop units other than Paras, but I'm pretty sure you used to be able to move anything that would fit between airfields.

 

[Wraith11B]

I moved regular troops via air transport in a game long ago, but that was an earlier expansion (probably Semper Fi). I know you can't air-drop units other than Paras, but I'm pretty sure you used to be able to move anything that would fit between airfields.

Desperately rushes off to test this in game...

Having just come from my clean install: I don't know if it's changed, but it wasn't working like that in TFH; I know that BICE has some stuff like that, perhaps.