No residential demand (for any density) with 100k+ open workplaces

[ArrrilX]

Information​

When reporting a crash, stability or performance problems, please use the Report a Crash button on the earlier screen​

[CLICK] I understand

Required​

Summary​

No residential demand (for any density) with 100k+ open workplaces

Steps to reproduce​

Unsure since this occured immediately after the update. Updating any city with 200k+ pop and many open positions might trigger. Current city is 360k workplaces with 260k employees. Also 200k of 360k pop are employed with 0.1% unemployment.

Expected Result​

Very high residential demand due to open workplaces and negative residential tax rate

Actual Result​

No residential demand of any kind. Few new residential buildings are built, and the ones built often become abandoned due to 0 residents.

Game Version​

1.0.12f1

Affected Feature​

• Balance
• Gameplay
• User Experience

Platform​

• Steam

Additional Information​

Additional Information​

Tax rate for residential is also set to negative. Commercial demand is full and there is also industrial demand, which is strange given that there are 100k+ unfilled positions.

Save Game​

View attachment Cricklade.cok

Other Attachments​

 

[ArrrilX]

Issue is worse now in 1.0.14f1. Now there are 200k + open workplaces and still no residential demand anywhere. This is now leading to population loss which is counterintuitive and should not be intended behavior

 

[Rombi84]

Issue is worse now in 1.0.14f1. Now there are 200k + open workplaces and still no residential demand anywhere. This is now leading to population loss which is counterintuitive and should not be intended behavior

I have comparable issue, 160k open jobs, 100% demand for commercial and low density, but none for higher density.
Its impossible fullfill the job demand with low density and furthermore mid and high density buildings get slowy abandoned, resulting in pop decrease.
Something is terribly going wrong...

Maybe its worth a try just to bulldoze and dezone 1/3 of commercial and industrial districts and see what happens

 

[lumen172]

Found out, that low density and high density commercial demand is not the same (as it seems to be for office buildings). Adding low density commercial triggers the need for medium density residential demand. High density alone will not do! A bit strange - but maybe as designed. Problem is the misleading bar chart, that has only one bar for commercial.

 

[Rombi84]

First I tested the dezoning until open positions were cut to less than a half. Didn't see any obvious negative effects but will let simulation run for a while and, if nothing changes, go on with dezoning until a good balance is reached.
Then try low density commercial an see what happens

 

[Megacities01]

Do you have empty buildings? They destroy the demands, check if the road didn't become red, they will stop to transfer in that buildings, they will get more empty and the demands will crash.... i think there is heavy bug in the demands system too

 

[Quantum Gravity]

I checked the saved file, and there's still a lot of empty rooms in residential, and stats show steep influx since start of city. Just need to wait for the buildings to fill up before demand returns, i think.

 

[Rombi84]

Found out, that low density and high density commercial demand is not the same (as it seems to be for office buildings). Adding low density commercial triggers the need for medium density residential demand. High density alone will not do! A bit strange - but maybe as designed. Problem is the misleading bar chart, that has only one bar for commercial.

Zoned some low density commercial, but nothing was built, seems I have no demand for it.
High demand zones are occupied as sonn they are zoned.

 

[ArrrilX]

I checked the saved file, and there's still a lot of empty rooms in residential, and stats show steep influx since start of city. Just need to wait for the buildings to fill up before demand returns, i think.

This is the strange part, it almost seems like the influx rate is capped at some value around 10k, but with such a large workplace gap this limit feels pretty arbitrary... I'm also not sure if it's the demand limiting the rate or the other way around. I guess only the devs can chime in on this, but it feels broken either way

 

[Jadisor]

now i have no residential demands, no commercial demands, no office demands, only some industrial demands, however, industry just crash one by one, population also goes down, full of bugs

 

[Rombi84]

Just started a new city, no salvation for my old one at the moment...
For now all looks fine, demand for all zones and densities, balance between workers and workplaces, but only appr. 20k ppl yet. I'll build it up and see what happens.

Somehow it seems that things run smooth until the city reaches some bigger size, then it's getting worse.

Maybe the simulation is doing some miscalculations, only few, perhaps only minor ones... as long as population is relatively small this has no effect (at least not noticeable), or the effect is compensated, but with constant growth it cumulates and at some point all switches over and breaks down.

Or it has to do with the patches, the first city was started on release day, and the patches broke something down irreparable.

3rd theory is the freaking high land value (up to average !!! 120k$ per square in my broken city) preventing anyone from outside moving in.

 

[zielenski]

My city just reached 360k and now facing low/no residential demand.Many buildings abandoned. Low unemployment. My city's land value per tile is $640k/cell: I don't think that is that relevant though. I have -10% taxes on all my sims for past few years to no effect.

 

[fakepersun]

I have a theory that it caused by the "unoccupied buildings" feedback loop. As people move out of high density (out of city or to low/med density homes) you get a low amount of that penalty. Then it starts to affect demand for high density and a bit fewer cims want to move into them. This causes unoccupied penalty to raise a little again. Which lowers the demand further. This feedback loop continues until demand for high density becomes zero.

 

[Harrytyp]

You can definitely not fix the issue by lowering taxes.
However, you can fix it by deleting and re-zoning high density.

Workaround:

1. Delete and de-zone (due to the bug not completely filled) high density residential buildings
2. Wait for low density demand to rise, wait patiently (if too slow, delete more high density) then mid density residential demand should rise.
3. When mid-level demand reaches 100, high level demand returns to positive numbers.

Background:

• I just installed the Info Loom mod and realized, the "EmptyBuildings" modificator is responsible for that behavior (you can see the same stats in dev tools)
• The EmptyBuildings modificator is computed in such a way that residential demand is always brought down to zero.
• When taxes go down (which increases demand), the EmptyBuildings modificator goes into high negative numbers (which decreases demand).
• It is independent of the number of unoccupied zoning. I suspect that it is (partially) empty, but already built buildings that are creating the issue at hand. Probably there is a bug that prevents not completely filled buildings to be completely filled.
• I also created an overview, however due to spam prevention I can only post it as an image. Tested it also for +30%, where the Empty Buildings Modificator ceases to exist, as demand is already zero.

 

[alexdeander]

You can definitely not fix the issue by lowering taxes.
However, you can fix it by deleting and re-zoning high density.

Workaround:

1. Delete and de-zone (due to the bug not completely filled) high density residential buildings
2. Wait for low density demand to rise, wait patiently (if too slow, delete more high density) then mid density residential demand should rise.
3. When mid-level demand reaches 100, high level demand returns to positive numbers.

Background:

• I just installed the Info Loom mod and realized, the "EmptyBuildings" modificator is responsible for that behavior.
• The EmptyBuildings modificator is computed in such a way that residential demand is always brought down to zero.
• When taxes go down (which increases demand), the EmptyBuildings modificator goes into high negative numbers (which decreases demand). It is independent of the number of unoccupied zoning, which is why I also suspect that it is empty, but already built buildings that are the issue at hand.
• I also created an overview, however due to spam prevention I can only post it as an image.
• Tested it also for +30%, where the Empty Buildings Modificator ceases to exist, as demand is already zero.

those factors for uncoopied zoning needs a change cuz its very annyoing