No more slave revolts since 1.5.x?

[Herennius]

Title. Maybe it is just me....but I had none since 1.5 and this feels a bit suspicious, as there was for me before hardly a playthorugh without one and especially because my current game has a lot of unhappy slaves. I read the DD about the rebellion rework again, but could find no hint on that anything was changed about slave uprisings or that they have been removed completely. So I wonder if that is just conincidence, a bug or an undocumented change?

 

[Todie]

I've made offhand mention of this at every turn. I haven't seen a single slave rebellion in 1.5.x either.

if I were to guess, the existing events for slave rebellions from earlier patches didn't make sense in 1.5 so they were disabled or removed for now. There are of course still some events that impact local slave happiness and can cause unrest, but these are very rarely an issue for an attentive player to handle.

This is kind of a balance issue because it makes slave happiness feel pretty useless to care about, outside very extreme circumstances.

... with the inclusion of political weight on pop-types, its become pretty straight forward to suppress the unrest caused by slaves. a lot of events give you a penalty to slave happiness that doesn't even come close to mattering. It might be cool if events could also increase the relative political weight of slaves locally, or add modifiers to province-loyalty tick that could spread to nearby provinces and compound any wider concerns regarding province loyalty decline.

Is pops political weight hardcoded as is btw? (I suspect so)

 

[Bovrick]

Yeah, I havent seen any for some time. I do wonder if their rebellion system needs to be separated from that of the higher classes in order for them to be relevant again.

 

[Todie]

Yeah, I havent seen any for some time. I do wonder if their rebellion system needs to be separated from that of the higher classes in order for them to be relevant again.

it may well be that they didn't end up having time to hammer out events for this in 1.5, as they ended up having to cut even stuff they had announced (vassal rework) and admittedly not enough faction agendas and stuff for the senate rework... I believe this is the sort of thing that can be handled quite well with the systems that exist for content designers to work with, given time and priority. (other than maybe the consideration of political weight that I mentioned?) ... though they¨re still aiming high with 2.0 so maybe some of these things are still flying under the radar, I don't know.

 

[Bovrick]

maybe the consideration of political weight that I mentioned?

That would be a way to make them relevant again for sure, but I do think it might be better to have different causes of rebellions than the all-in-one unrest mechanic - slaves having their own potential, unintegrated Pops having their own potential, and so on.

As for events, I guess I'm just not a fan of event-driven gameplay, but that might be a route too.

 

[Herennius]

Hmm, if the events were indeed remove, that wouldn't be good IMO. I'm not saying that they were perfect and most of the time you could easily beat those slave hoards (even if there were numerous), but at least occasionally they cought you in a critical situation like a close war. Subsumming slave revolts under the local revolts concepts is problematic for two reason - one is that under this system province loyalty is the trigger and slaves with their low political wieght are unlikely to pull it alone; the other is that this purely restricts such revolts to conquered territories - the "Spartacus"-scenarion is just not possible, because even 200 unhappy slaves will technically never be able to revolt in your capital province and very likely also not in other ones with a majority of integrated pops.

If Todie is right and this it indeed only a temporary cut, well then hopefully we see a return with 2.0

 

[Todie]

As for events, I guess I'm just not a fan of event-driven gameplay, but that might be a route too.

Event is a very wide concept in PDS gsg's.. they can have such dynamic triggers and outcomes. Its kind of like, the only functional difference between the existing rebellion system and a sophisticated event chain is that there are distinct UI elements to represent unrest and province loyalty.

Subsumming slave revolts under the local revolts concepts is problematic for two reason - one is that under this system province loyalty is the trigger and slaves with their low political wieght are unlikely to pull it alone; the other is that this purely restricts such revolts to conquered territories - the "Spartacus"-scenarion is just not possible, because even 200 unhappy slaves will technically never be able to revolt in your capital province and very likely also not in other ones with a majority of integrated pops.

Indeed.

existing events that give something like -x% slave happiness don't carry consistent meaning in gameplay on their own. I think the sort of thing that is missing is an event(chain) that considers slave ratio, slave happiness and unrest in a province in order to give it a chance to trigger - similar to how the old slave rebellions could trigger at <50 slave happiness and x unrest (?) ... but instead of having an instant eu4-style rebellion-stack spawn, add a very substantial modifier to province loyalty.

Also, it would be nice with some (slave)rebellion exceptions for capital provinces, allowing rebellion armies to spawn in these directly, or some other solution.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Or go full Spartacus and loose all your slave pops on the province to a militia, like migrating tribes. I would not expect less from I:R

 

[herrickrcw2]

I actually forgot they existed haha

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I haven't seen a single revolt. Can't say I'm complaining either. I didn't like the mechanic.

 

[Herennius]

I haven't seen a single revolt. Can't say I'm complaining either. I didn't like the mechanic.

The event wasn't a perfect implementation of this IMO, but I prefer it to cutting out the risk completely. As lined out above the provincial revolt mechanic is not able to model the threat of a slave revolt. There needs to be a significant downside again, when you ignore slave happiness. In past versions, the happiness-output-impact was there, but thats gone and the low political weight (as much as I love the concept and the factor it is in calculating the risk for provincial revolts) for slave pops just can't do it.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

The event wasn't a perfect implementation of this IMO, but I prefer it to cutting out the risk completely. As lined out above the provincial revolt mechanic is not able to model the threat of a slave revolt. There needs to be a significant downside again, when you ignore slave happiness. In past versions, the happiness-output-impact was there, but thats gone and the low political weight (as much as I love the concept and the factor it is in calculating the risk for provincial revolts) for slave pops just can't do it.

I like the idea of it being possible. I wasn't so enthusiastic about the near absolute certainty of it happening every 20 years in games where I run a high AE.