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Europa Universalis III 46143 EU3 - After Action Reports (AAR)
hildoceras

hildoceras

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May 16, 2002
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An idea I just had when playing EU2 and that I throw to the crowd, not knowing if it would fit in another thread...

I (once again) am at war against Spain, and (once again) I rampage the spanish colonies, free for the taking, no fortress, no garrison, no nothing !

Well, I could restrain myself, be the honest guy and stop three months in each province to simulate a token siege... but... :eek:o well... :eek:o you know, it's so easy :p

Please, would you consider that when a colony reach the statute of 'city' (1000 inhabitants ?) some people would automatically build a timber wall or some earth fortification, with a catapult or some stone bullet old cannon ? A sort of "level 1/2" fortress between the 0 level and the first one...
 
hildoceras said:
An idea I just had when playing EU2 and that I throw to the crowd, not knowing if it would fit in another thread...

I (once again) am at war against Spain, and (once again) I rampage the spanish colonies, free for the taking, no fortress, no garrison, no nothing !

Well, I could restrain myself, be the honest guy and stop three months in each province to simulate a token siege... but... :eek:o well... :eek:o you know, it's so easy :p

Please, would you consider that when a colony reach the statute of 'city' (1000 inhabitants ?) some people would automatically build a timber wall or some earth fortification, with a catapult or some stone bullet old cannon ? A sort of "level 1/2" fortress between the 0 level and the first one...
Click to expand...


Interesting question. unless they had artillery (expensive) any Naval task force could overwhelm a settlement. The problem historically was the ships would not be able to afford to leave a garrison.
 
Yes, just to follow up on Smirfy's post, most colonies who had small fortifications would only take a few days at most to be overwhelmed by a sieging army which possessed heavy artillery.

So I don't honestly think this is something that is very necessary. However a different system and structure of building fortifications would make afresh for EU3.
 
Hiow about the way it works in Vicky? After an army defeats any enemy units in the province, it still takes some time to assume control of the province, depending on the number of units and their characteristics (and possibly some other factors as well)
 
rafiki said:
Hiow about the way it works in Vicky? After an army defeats any enemy units in the province, it still takes some time to assume control of the province, depending on the number of units and their characteristics (and possibly some other factors as well)
Click to expand...

That was one ugly system, We are talking a different scale here, settlments that are one square mile in size, which a couple of hundred troops would sieze control in an instant.
 
Smirfy said:
That was one ugly system, We are talking a different scale here, settlments that are one square mile in size, which a couple of hundred troops would sieze control in an instant.
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Yes but there are hundreds of these settlements scattered everywhere.


I think that sieges are way cooler though...
 
Smirfy said:
That was one ugly system,
Click to expand...
OK, fair enough. Why?
Smirfy said:
We are talking a different scale here, settlments that are one square mile in size, which a couple of hundred troops would sieze control in an instant.
Click to expand...
I'd imagine that settlements and population were spread out abit throughout a given province, so it would take some time to get control. It would/could/should work that way for unfortified provinces in general, some of which could be quite large.

In any case, it would adress hildoceras's problem with troops being able to proceed directly from one province to the next.
 
Hutu said:
Yes but there are hundreds of these settlements scattered everywhere.
Click to expand...

The settlement as is my understanding is the hub once it is taken your link to home is gone all communications are severed you are effectively at the mercy of anyone who controls it.
 
rafiki said:
OK, fair enough. Why?.
Click to expand...

Because it seemed like a bolt on addition, Vicky was stuck with combat system that did not suit provinces



rafiki said:
I'd imagine that settlements and population were spread out abit throughout a given province, so it would take some time to get control. It would/could/should work that way for unfortified provinces in general, some of which could be quite large.

In any case, it would adress hildoceras's problem with troops being able to proceed directly from one province to the next.
Click to expand...

As I said this is your link with the outside world once you are cut adrift the farmers outside the settlement usually just had to accept it and get on with life. They might even have starved if it were winter or they lived on a tropical Island if they offered resistance ;)

There is no need EU operates on the province system with more chess like movement with help likely to be thousands of miles away accross oceans. The problem of course would be addressed if you actually had to garrison forts and settlements. Have i mentioned a unit system like RTW would be good for that :D
 
Smirfy said:
Because it seemed like a bolt on addition, Vicky was stuck with combat system that did not suit provinces
Click to expand...
I liked it quite a lot; made sure you didn't get the same "one division takes a stroll of Africa"-thing you could see in HOI.
 
rafiki said:
I liked it quite a lot; made sure you didn't get the same "one division takes a stroll of Africa"-thing you could see in HOI.
Click to expand...


WWII and HOI's scale does not suit the province system either ;)

Its not really a nessecary feature for EU, You dont build forts you deserve all you get ;)
 
It should reasonably take at least several days to take control of a province that represents, usually, hundreds of square miles. Even the smallest of these islands should take more than an hour to occupy and claim control of. What the best way to incoporate this into a game, or even if it is worth the time it takes to program, are two separate issues. In the end, even if it takes 5 days to occupy an ungarrisoned colony, it will only slightly slow down a player's ability to blitz through colonial settlements.

An idea that I think may be worth considering is that a colony, once it becomes a colonial city (or however they decide to classify it now), should automatically upgrade to a minimum level of fortificatio.
 
If a ruler wanted a colony defended he had to invest in its defence. This is represented by fortifications. Giving forts away for free is no good. If there was 'we need to secure the province' time, like in Victoria, that would be fine. But to represent that by giving the player a free fortress isn't, IMO, a good idea. Make colonies even more profitable.
 
Innocent said:
It should reasonably take at least several days to take control of a province that represents, usually, hundreds of square miles. Even the smallest of these islands should take more than an hour to occupy and claim control of. What the best way to incoporate this into a game, or even if it is worth the time it takes to program, are two separate issues. In the end, even if it takes 5 days to occupy an ungarrisoned colony, it will only slightly slow down a player's ability to blitz through colonial settlements.

An idea that I think may be worth considering is that a colony, once it becomes a colonial city (or however they decide to classify it now), should automatically upgrade to a minimum level of fortificatio.
Click to expand...


Truly unessecary feature for EUIII
 
I agree that this is more a game adjustment than a truly historic feature. Most colonial cities had just enough walls to keep hostile indigens outside. Some locally made forts were good enough to repell a single ennemy ship and its crew, no more.

But in EU2, and particularily against the AI, there is a weakness in these unprotected colonial cities. a single 200men cavalry troop can win all of the victory points of a french-spanish war staled on the pyrenean border !
In this game matter, I'd like to see a token resistance from the colonial cities needing at least 2k men or equal value in guns to enter a colonial city. under this number, you'd loot the province but not take it...
 
hildoceras said:
I agree that this is more a game adjustment than a truly historic feature. Most colonial cities had just enough walls to keep hostile indigens outside. Some locally made forts were good enough to repell a single ennemy ship and its crew, no more.

But in EU2, and particularily against the AI, there is a weakness in these unprotected colonial cities. a single 200men cavalry troop can win all of the victory points of a french-spanish war staled on the pyrenean border !
In this game matter, I'd like to see a token resistance from the colonial cities needing at least 2k men or equal value in guns to enter a colonial city. under this number, you'd loot the province but not take it...
Click to expand...


.


edit I have no problems with the AI cheating and getting a minimum fort with each colony
 
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