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[MOD] Pharaohs & Consuls

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BlackEagle78 said:
Wouldn't it make sense to merge the Upper and Lower Egyptian kingdoms into one de jure kingdom? Under the Persians, Ptolemies and Romans, Egypt would always be treated as one united administrative unit, and no ruler within the time period of your mod would claim only Upper or Lower Egypt as their domain, but always declared themselves kings or pharaohs of a united Egypt.

Also, I propose two small mechanics/changes. Firstly, to remove the pharaoh as the head of the Egyptian religion and incorporate a new mechanic for Egyptian priesthoods. Foreign pharaohs, of which there were plenty during the time period of your mod, often did not adhere primarily to the Egyptian pantheon, while they did derive legitimacy from their connections with the Egyptian priesthood and their position as pharaoh. However, Egypt had no single high priest either; instead, every cult had their own (high) priesthood. There were a few important cults and priesthoods in Egypt during this time period: the High Priesthood of Amun (popular until about 525 BCE), the Cult of Apis, the High Priesthood of Ptah (especially powerful under Saite dynasty and the Ptolemies), the cult of Isis (popular during the entire Late Period), and the oracle of Ammon in Siwa. I suggest that these three high priesthoods get represented in game, maybe by using a rework of the pentarch mechanic, so that they can compete for religious and political influence.

Secondly, any king-level ruler with at least one county in the de jure kingdom of Egypt, of any religion and culture, should be able to petition one of the leaders of these cults to receive the title of pharaoh. This would be represented as a trait with an opinion bonus with characters who adhere the Egyptian religion and gives prestige. Of course, priests should be able to ask for boons in return; maybe more financial gains in Egypt (represented by a lower tax rate, but a modifier for the priests which increases their own income), or just a straight out donation to their cult. Cults should also favor characters whose predecessors (so a parent or sibling) were appointed by the same cult, leading to this cult becoming more powerful by subsequent generations of pharaohs donating to the cult. Characters whose parent or sibling was pharaoh, but who now don't possess any counties in Egypt or who don't get approved by a priesthood should be able to still claim the title of pharaoh, and receive a version of the trait with much smaller bonuses (the Persians still claimed to rule Egypt during their Egyptian interregnum, for instance). Also, different cults should be able to support different claimants during civil wars, preferably those who were crowned by their own priesthood. The royal title of the de jure kingdom of Egypt should thus simply be king, seeing how pharaoh practically translates to that title anyway (especially during the Late Period). What do you think?
Click to expand...

I like it so far, I've always had an issue with the kingdom between 2 different titles originally but I haven't revisited it for a long time. I am looking into the autocephaly mechanics at the moment to see if I can pull it off with the different high priests/cults, although I'm not sure about the role of "Pharaoh" being given out by the different pentarchs etc I may just tie it to the actual holder of the kingdom..which I think would be appropriate although there are several times that it seems an egyptian pharaoh (of sorts) existed while the persian held sway using a satrap so I'll need to see what other options I can come up with or if I could tie the title/trait together in some way.. - EDIT: so You can't use the pentarchy system for multiple religious_groups apparently? in my test it connected the other faiths pentarchs to the egyptian one somehow....so if I at least make it Autocephalous (without being pentarchy) then it makes the kingdom level (so the united Egypt) court priest the religious head of the lower bishops/priests....so I'd have to make the egyptian_faith title be called the high priest of Amun or another title I guess and the different Autocephalous priests might hold it at different points...
 
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What will be the end date? The rise of augustus to power?
 
Finally messed around with a few Artifacts, here is a little preview of Artaxerxes' treasury with my first custom items...I also just added the Ring of Gyges and of Alexander the Great as well :)

86r30Xf.jpg
 
The famous brothers Memnon & Mentor of Rhodes:

1JoyX9u.jpg


and

PYX0BQf.jpg


They spent most of their lives in and out of the service of the Persian royal court, although they were also involved in Artabazus II ' rebellion against the crown and fought with the Egyptian forces of Nakhthorheb/Nectanebo II
 
Thanks Byzkuda, yeah I'm trying to figure out the new customizable localisation system for the macedonians/greeks in Egypt, to help with the flavour of the Argead-Ptolemaic dynasty...I'm not sure if I'll leave the rulers as Olympian religion and the majority of the population/lower tier leaders as the kemetic faith...or maybe create a syncretic blend of the two via event? it'll be hard for me to have proper titles etc for the Ptolemaics also being referred to as Pharaoh and not just Hegemon etc
 
olupien said:
Thanks Byzkuda, yeah I'm trying to figure out the new customizable localisation system for the macedonians/greeks in Egypt, to help with the flavour of the Argead-Ptolemaic dynasty...I'm not sure if I'll leave the rulers as Olympian religion and the majority of the population/lower tier leaders as the kemetic faith...or maybe create a syncretic blend of the two via event? it'll be hard for me to have proper titles etc for the Ptolemaics also being referred to as Pharaoh and not just Hegemon etc
Click to expand...
You're welcome mate! And, I actually had some thoughts on that;
It's actually quite hard, because, as far I know, the "Pharaoh" title was... I don't know how to actually explain it, but let's say even Roman emperors were called "Pharaohs" while Rome controled the Kemetic/Hellenist Egypt (the last Roman emperor to be called like that was Maximinus Daia between 311–313 AD), but like you said... It could aso affect the Achaemenids (since the Thirty-First Dynasty of Egypt is based on them as Pharaohs as well, but they're Persians with a different religion rather than having the Kemetic one...). But I'm pretty sure other than the rulers and some court members, the rest of Egypt was fully, or at least 75% biased on Kemetic faith (in both scenarios).
 
olupien said:
Thanks Byzkuda, yeah I'm trying to figure out the new customizable localisation system for the macedonians/greeks in Egypt, to help with the flavour of the Argead-Ptolemaic dynasty...I'm not sure if I'll leave the rulers as Olympian religion and the majority of the population/lower tier leaders as the kemetic faith...or maybe create a syncretic blend of the two via event? it'll be hard for me to have proper titles etc for the Ptolemaics also being referred to as Pharaoh and not just Hegemon etc
Click to expand...

Imo giving the Ptolemies their own syncretic religion within the Olympian group would be the most versatile option, since it means they can have unique mechanics like divine marriage and whatnot without requiring you to interfere with the mechanics of the mainstream Olympians (which I assume would get very messy). It would also help to differentiate them from other Hellenistic rulers who never really attempted any sort of cultural/religious integration, though it could be even more interesting to have a dynamic system where there's pre-made syncretic religions corresponding to certain regions (you could exploit the pre-reformed religion bug so they don't show up on the ledger). That would certainly help every game feel different, like a Seleucid king that goes east could eventually run into Buddhism and adopt elements of it (as the Indo-Greek kingdom did historically). You could even follow the CKII tradition and throw in a couple of ridiculous ahistorical ones if you really wanted to :p

Pharaoh could possibly just be a trait that increases the opinion of Kemetic characters, but if you're a foreign ruler you have to prove yourself first in order to earn it. Localisation-wise, I think the most appropriate royal title for the Ptolemies will always be Basileus/Basilissa given that's what most of the world saw them as, and afaik it's how they referred to themselves the majority of the time (on coinage, official documents etc). If the player decides they want to be a pharaoh first and foremost, then they could still do that by fully embracing Egyptian culture.

Preview pics looking great as always btw!
 
I'd suggest Pharaoh being religious head's title of Kemetic and Greaco-egyptian (I hope I spelled it right ^^) or you can be Pharaoh (as religious head title) only for the second faith (as this title came from greek) and Pera (don't remember spelling) as religious head title for Kemets :)
 
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olupien said:
Thanks Byzkuda, yeah I'm trying to figure out the new customizable localisation system for the macedonians/greeks in Egypt, to help with the flavour of the Argead-Ptolemaic dynasty...I'm not sure if I'll leave the rulers as Olympian religion and the majority of the population/lower tier leaders as the kemetic faith...or maybe create a syncretic blend of the two via event? it'll be hard for me to have proper titles etc for the Ptolemaics also being referred to as Pharaoh and not just Hegemon etc
Click to expand...

If you won't figure out how to do that you can always create dummy government that is named the same and functions the same as an original one but has special set of titles assigned, but I think it is also possible to assign special title to kingdom/empire just like in AGOT every kingdom has a king except of Dorne that has a Prince.

EDIT:
Yeah look :)
Code: 
e_dorne = {
 
    color={ 215 115 0 }
    color2={ 200 0 0 }
                      
    allow = {
        e_dorne = { has_holder = yes }
    }
  
    capital = 352 # Sunspear
    culture = stone_dornish
  
    name_tier = king
  
    dignity=20

    title = "DORNEPRINCE"
    title_female = "DORNEPRINCE_female"
    foa = "DORNEPRINCE_FOA"     
}

Also it you could model religious syncretism using decisions that adds opinion boost to specific religions and events to assign modifiers that negate half(?) of the wrong religion modifier.
 
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Mitusonator said:
If you won't figure out how to do that you can always create dummy government that is named the same and functions the same as an original one but has special set of titles assigned, but I think it is also possible to assign special title to kingdom/empire just like in AGOT every kingdom has a king except of Dorne that has a Prince.

EDIT:
Yeah look :)
Code: 
e_dorne = {
 
    color={ 215 115 0 }
    color2={ 200 0 0 }
                     
    allow = {
        e_dorne = { has_holder = yes }
    }
 
    capital = 352 # Sunspear
    culture = stone_dornish
 
    name_tier = king
 
    dignity=20

    title = "DORNEPRINCE"
    title_female = "DORNEPRINCE_female"
    foa = "DORNEPRINCE_FOA"    
}

Also it you could model religious syncretism using decisions that adds opinion boost to specific religions and events to assign modifiers that negate half(?) of the wrong religion modifier.
Click to expand...

Oh that's a great idea...you are saying to make a kingdom specific title in that case? so for k_egypt or e_egypt for example would have title="PHARAOH" or whichever loc...so that whoever holds the title regardless of culture would be called pharaoh...
 
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