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Pasha

Pasha

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May 26, 2005
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This is something that's been perplexing me for several years. Occasionally I see generals with both the Panzer Leader and Commando trait. I never know what to do with them because doesn't a Panzer Leader contribute a negative effect when assigned to a non-armored unit (I might be wrong on this) while a Commando has a negative effect when assigned to a conventional unit?

Also, does the trickster actually work against the all-knowing AI?
 
Just tried a tank and mountaineer army in 1941 with Martinek, a German. He's just got Commando and Panzer Leader. Commando gives minus 5 to anything not air, sea, or mountain infantry, but the Panzer Leader gives plus 10 to tanks, and no penalties to anything not a tank. So it'd be an overall benefit in mountains to put a tank with mountaineers and this commander. Mountaineers would get a 10 bonus and the tanks would get a 5 bonus. Tanks over water get huge penalties, but if it's all you've got and some marines then use the commander.

Trickster just increases the chance for manoeuvres, especiall useful with HQs as they boost chances too. At least I assume. Notice in the army doctrines the HQs get "event bonus multipliers." I'm guessing Trickster adds another multiplier.
 
Pasha said:
This is something that's been perplexing me for several years. Occasionally I see generals with both the Panzer Leader and Commando trait. I never know what to do with them because doesn't a Panzer Leader contribute a negative effect when assigned to a non-armored unit (I might be wrong on this) while a Commando has a negative effect when assigned to a conventional unit?

Also, does the trickster actually work against the all-knowing AI?
Click to expand...

the reason is simple: versatility. If you go with building a lot of mountaineer/paratrooper/marine divs and are running a little low on commando leaders, get a half breed general with 2 completely opposing traits in there. Same goes if you want more tanks and cant seem to find more panzer leaders.

Dr. Intolerance said:
Just tried a tank and mountaineer army in 1941 with Martinek, a German. He's just got Commando and Panzer Leader. Commando gives minus 5 to anything not air, sea, or mountain infantry, but the Panzer Leader gives plus 10 to tanks, and no penalties to anything not a tank. So it'd be an overall benefit in mountains to put a tank with mountaineers and this commander. Mountaineers would get a 10 bonus and the tanks would get a 5 bonus. Tanks over water get huge penalties, but if it's all you've got and some marines then use the commander.

Trickster just increases the chance for manoeuvres, especiall useful with HQs as they boost chances too. At least I assume. Notice in the army doctrines the HQs get "event bonus multipliers." I'm guessing Trickster adds another multiplier.
Click to expand...

As for this, if i recall correctly commando leaders no longer reduce the fighting stats of other units being led by them. I might be insane though so dont quote me on that.
 
I tested DH with a Panzer Leader/Commando general and an army of one mountaineer and one tank. The mountaineer got a 10 bonus and no penalty, the tank got 10 and -5 from the Commando trait, so +5.
 
Thanks guys. For some reason I thought the Panzer Leader imposes a penalty on soft units when leading them in battle. I was mistaken.
 
Dr. Intolerance said:
Just tried a tank and mountaineer army in 1941 with Martinek, a German. He's just got Commando and Panzer Leader. Commando gives minus 5 to anything not air, sea, or mountain infantry, but the Panzer Leader gives plus 10 to tanks, and no penalties to anything not a tank. So it'd be an overall benefit in mountains to put a tank with mountaineers and this commander. Mountaineers would get a 10 bonus and the tanks would get a 5 bonus. Tanks over water get huge penalties, but if it's all you've got and some marines then use the commander.

Trickster just increases the chance for manoeuvres, especiall useful with HQs as they boost chances too. At least I assume. Notice in the army doctrines the HQs get "event bonus multipliers." I'm guessing Trickster adds another multiplier.
Click to expand...

A trickster will also camouflaging units from enemy recon, or what?
 
I gotta return to this thread. The manual says that Panzer Leader increases the speed of troops, which I'm guessing are the non-armored variety. Has anyone seen that work?

Also I gotta know what Trickster does. Is it the 'surprise' bonus to a battle, or the 'event' bonus, or both that get a boost? I'm thinking it might be very useful for lone infantry divisions in deep territory.
 
From leader traits (mod docs) :

Trickster
Increases the chance that the combat event Surprise will occur, on offense as well as on defense. This chance is further influenced by how advanced your own industrial research of Encryption and Decryption (E&D) technologies is relative to your opponent.
When a successful Surprise has occured, combat efficiency of the opposing forces is reduced by 20% and it will read "Surprise" in their combat details pane.
A Trickster will also hide the exact division strength of his formation. In practical terms this means that when playing with counters on, the opponent will keep guessing whether there are 2 or 3 divisions in a "XXX" formation, and will never know how many there are in a "XXXX" formation (although four divisions is the minimum for "XXXX", while "XX" obviously is always one division only).

About Panzer Leader, look above, you tested it ;)
 
I need to make it a habit of consulting those documents. Thanks.

The DH manual says that Panzer Leader increases the speed of troops, while no mention of that is made of Logistics Wizard, yet I notice that LW speeds up troops, not PL.
 
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I can answer this: PL does not speed up hard units. It only gives them a bonus to fight with them. LW speeds units up AND gives them less consumption of supplies/fuel. In other words, use PL for breaches and LW for penetration/overrunning.
 
I tested it a while back and logistics wizard is quite interesting:

The (too) simple description of the leader trait "Logistics Wizard" states:
1) "Reduces fuel and supply consumption of non-moving units commanded by a leader with this trait (by -25%)."

2) +10% ESE
Additionally to this, a leader with the logistics-trait also raises the effective supply efficiency (ESE) for all units under his command by 10%. This effect is valid while non-moving, moving and in battle. Especially in low-infra-regions or in regions vastly destroyed by battles, this is extremely helpful since it helps a lot regaining organisation. In battle the raised ESE serves like a 5% battle-bonus (because ESE is part of the battle-calculation). The 10% ESE bonus is fully cumulative with the ESE bonus of an HQ and is added identically.

3) Speedbonus
Either as an effect of the ESE-bonus or as an additional third bonus, speed is enhanced. I don't know by how much but I've tested it several times and it is obvious.


After the test I changed my preference of traits for leaders of MOT-units in war (in order of importance):
before: offensive, defensive, logistics wizard
after test: LW, def, off
 
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VTs said:
Traits are independent of leader level, right? Or at least some traits......
Click to expand...

Well, most leaders come with fixed traits as defined in the various country files in the subdir /db/leaders/

And then there are the "new" traits" which can be aquired by practice like desert fox, blitzer, ambusher... How exactly the formula looks that determines the chance to aquire such a trait, I don't know.
 
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Altruist said:
Well, most leaders come with fixed traits as defined in the various country files in the subdir /db/leaders/

And then there are the "new" traits" which can be aquired by practice like desert fox, blitzer, ambusher... How exactly the formula looks that determines the chance to aquire such a trait, I don't know.
Click to expand...
Sorry, what I meant was, a Lvl 5 LW doesn't give a bigger boost than a Lvl 2 LW, with respect to the logisitic bonus, right?
 
VTs said:
Sorry, what I meant was, a Lvl 5 LW doesn't give a bigger boost than a Lvl 2 LW, with respect to the logisitic bonus, right?
Click to expand...

No, no difference.

Here an example, a bad one, had no other handy, because it is actually a Lv1-Leader but it is the same info for higher leaders: 3rd line of the popup-info shows the Logistics Wizard Bonus. Can be easily checked and seen if you hover over the unit's Effective Efficiency percentage (ESE).

1653494413489.png
 
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