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Zorro

Field Marshal
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Mar 15, 2003
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I finally got around to playing a game long enough to become king. I’m wondering what is a good ratio of lords to lands is. I was a vassal of Swadia before I formed my own kingdom and only use Swadia troops mostly just Calvary. I made Dhirm my capital because of its central location in the world. Other than that I have all the lands that the Kingdom of Vaegirs use to have. The war with the Vaegirs was simple enough as most of its land was already under Swadia’s control and I took it when I broke off.

I’m currently at war with the Khergit Khanate who has the bulk of their starting land taken by the other factions. They currently only have one town and a few castles so I figured it would be an easy win.

In any case my question is how many lords should I have for all this land? I currently have nine (I plan on giving the new lands won agaist the Khanate to new Lords). I thought with fewer lords it would be easier to keep everyone happy and they would have stronger armies. Should I get more lords in and give them fewer fiefs?
 
With the current version, keeping lords happy is not a primary concern as you can hold feats and when you render justice, it does not influence the liking by the lords.

Better to work on the position of the lords on the map, how to tag them so they can work in unison to defend a border and match their renown with their holdings since renown will determine their troops levy speed.
 
What do you mean by render justice? By biggest problem is I have two lords who have low relations with me I think around 5 or 6. I have feasts to help but it is taking me forever to distrubt fiefs without upsetting them.

I do try and keeps lords fiefs where I'd like them to patrol along but nothing where they could work together, that would be useful.

Also do you know how much military power you need to bring over other vassals to your faction? I recently asked a count who I had 52 relation with to join me but said I wasn't strong enough. What does it base this off of? I have over 2,000 troops distributed between my personal fiefs.
 
Depending on their personality, lords developp feuds(money, woman, behaviour in battle etc) When things turn sour, they ask you to settle their quarrels. It is a stub of a feature in this version so it does not matter.

Lords will tag along according to their personality as they have natural relationship.

For example, if you give a castle to a pitiless lord with high renown and the nexting village to another pitiless lord with a less renown, they go well along, hanging a lot in the castle when they are at peace, they patrol together and when one is got by enemies, the other joins the fray to help him out. Mixing a good natured lord and a pitiless lord makes they wont help each other out and can be singled out. Makes a difference to deal with small raiding parties or even bandits.

Critical relation to a lord is 30 before asking them to join. Under that relation, it gets very hard to turn them loyal as they skip feasts. They are other ways to raise the relationship: helping the lords'holding (if his reputation favours such hand outs), helping him out of a battle, naming him a marshall (the renown determines the scale of the engagement, low renown lords can manage small scales only,high renown lords can manage everything, when asked, the lord tells of his plan as a marshall (defend, destroy the main army,raid etc) Probably the fastest manner to improve relationship. But again, 5 is hard to manage.

There are several possibilities for the last one. The most frequent is that when asking for protection, the lord checks against all his family's members. At some point in the game, they might be spread over several kingdoms (if a large family) and such the kingdom's power is checked against the other kingdoms.In this case, it is worthwhile to check where the other members of the family are and if there are ways to secure them.
Another stub feature as members of a family are (supposed to be) meant to be used as hostages.
 
So there are dishonorable and honorable vassals? Is that why after a battle some vassals are happy to be let go and others get upset if you don't imprison them?

Any mods out there that you would recommend?
 
Each lord has his own vision on how governance should be made. It corresponds with the five (or so) questions they ask you before joining. Supposedly, each action taken by the PC confirms or infirms an adhesion to the governing principles. In other words, in this game, lords expect you not to be words and mouth only but to back up your speech with the corresponding acts.
If you want to support the rule by the stronger (the story of wolves and lambs), your acts must show that you live by that governance.

Depending on the patches, the lords'personality is given on their screen (some patches removed it then it was put back so I dont remember if it is visible in the current version) In all cases, investigating village/town folks give information.


Actions are processed and intepretated correspondingly to the lord's personality. For example, if the lord is good natured, he welcomes his village/town folk receiving alms( Pitiless or dutiful lords hate that), he abhors war so declaring war unprovoked is poorly received and might refuse to join(only when relationship is low) (pitiless lords see in unprovoked wars an opportunity to loot villages), he does not loot and frowns on joining, he appreciates releasing captured prisoners,being helped in battle, avoidance of blood bath in battle, and accepting peace offers when they come up. And a few more.

Every time an action is taken in a direction, the lord appreciates it. Pushing down or up the relationship.

That is why 5 relationship lords are so hard to manage, especially when they might not have a compatible personality with the rest of the vassals.

If the majority of vassals are pitiless, first, it might mean that they went to like you because your actions corresponded with a pitiless profile. So you acted so far as a pitiless character. And second, when the five relationship lords are good natured (they are the polar opposite of pitiless), they will want for contrary actions pleasing a pitiless lord. When pleasing them, you will anger the rest of the vassals etc...

That's why at start, it is worthwile to begin with a bunch of like minded vassals that agree with the governance. Makes things much easier when possible (but those lords might themselves be loyal to their current liege and refuse to join so not that easy to get the perfect starting party)

I dont play mods.
 
That makes it very difficult to start you're own kingdom. I'm playing at one of the lower difficulty settings so at least it won't be a game breaker for me. It almost seems that you have to plan ahead very far in advance and seek out some lords you wish to join you well before you acutally form a kingdom so you can get their relations can improve. My game has pretty much just turned into me having feasts every week and in between running around buying food.

I have the steam version so it's the latest patch. From what I see there isn't any indication on the lord's screen of their personality.

Thanks for all the help.
 
Yes and no.

To start a kingdom, the PC must throw over his loyalty oath, which is a capital crime. Such it is an endeavour that should not be taken lightly. You'll need a PC who somehow grow powerful enough to sustain the backlash.

That is the Julius Caesar's thing: "If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it."

Part of it is to get the support of some other lords (warband)

Does it require planning? Not really. There is no perfect path to a kingdom, only paths that come with consequences.

The PC starts as an unknown character who wishes to make a name for himself/herself. Once she/he is reputable enough, Kings pay attention and wishes the character to turn into a vassal.

In the doing of acquiring that reputation, the character is given chances to start befriending lords. 30 relationship to a lord is the critical point. Up to 30, lords considers the character as a mere errand boy/girl. From 30, the relationship is changed, they no longer issue quests and start to consider the character as a peer in value.

So 30 relationship to a lord is the critical mass. A lord with a relationship over 30 is material to join a coup. Under that point, the lord is difficult to manage.

Reaching 30 relationship with many lords comes naturally if you dont rush the getting known stage. Taking one tour as a mercenary for a faction and joining another faction as a vassal is usually enough to get enough of lords over 30 reputation.

Another thing is that reputation carries over deeds. Other lords, even when not in the faction or the action, might hear of a deed and approve it therefore the relationship to that lord is increased (the game was supposed to feature mechanics to make enemies but it never really made it into the game)
Worth keeping an eye on the report log as those lords'name is reported anytime they approve of an action.

In this game, behaviour is taken into account and the game's experience follows.

If you rush your kingdom building, you'll get the experience of an impetuous lord who can not wait and has to be satisfied at once.It is neither good or bad, the experience that follows fits the behaviour.

If you carefully plan your kingdom building, it is also neither good or bad. It gives the experience of a planner who is will get frustrated at times as things do not come together as they were planned.

Same things for the choice of vassals: if you go for a homogenous band, they wil act as one man. If you take pitiless lords, they create more casus belli and expect the king to follow. If not, you appear weak and alienate them all.
A heterogenous band affords more flexibility, they are less cohesive though.

No planning required, simply the consequences associated to certain behaviours.

Another example, if before turning into a vassal, you choose to build up reputation through battles, neglecting to build up your relationship with lords,village and cities, and that, once a vassal, you seize the first opportunity to break your oath, you'll get the experience that follows the behaviour.

You'll be strong in battles, but will have to rely on yourself mostly.

In this game, there are no perfect paths, only paths and any time you'll face the consequences (good and bad) of your behaviour.
 
Sorry for delay havn't been able to play in awhile. Been paying more attention to who I give out fiefs too. Next time I will not just accept any lord to join I will only let in people who I already have a high relation with. Maybe next time I'll get a lord who has a son and brother that way they are happy when you give land to them. I wish they would have made it clear how to till if a lord is pitiless or not.

Thanks for all your help. I may have to increase the difficulty next time as it all proved Academic with the lords. I was able to beat the other kingdoms combined armies myself. Next game I'm going to do like you said and get lords who will help each other patrol and will respond to the marshal. Thanks again.
 
Anytime you ask a lord to join your side, there is an option to know what his expectations (on governance) are.
It does not put a name on their personality but it tells it.
Additionally, some lists must be floating around. Lords' personalities are a determined feature in the game, they do not change from one game to another. Maybe on Wikia etc...

As stated earlier, 30 relationship is the minimum required.
 
If you want to know, you can click on "Reports" while on world map, then click "Known lords by relation". That will give their personality, as soon as you have talked with them first time. It will also give you their "nationality" (So what kind of troops they get normally).
It will even give you their relations with their current ruler and controversy etc.

Quite handy!