Is Project Caesar Paradox's most ambitious project?if yes,aren't y'all a bit worried?

[Ahmadmltft]

Everything we saw in the last 10 TTs were neat,but i can't help but worry about the scope of this game.

Johan said that the game will try to match the current amount of content that EU4 has on release,and it will have 500 years of content and semi-accurate simulation.the game also takes the best parts of each PDX GSG(many state and army things from Imperator + EU4,many economic aspects of Victoria,and likely some form of de jure and de facto realms from Crusader Kings),which prompted many people to call it Johan's "Magnum Opus".I'm worried that the ambitions and promises are way too much and the game will ultimately disappoint many people regardless of how good it actually will be(due to overhyping)
As of right now,every Tinto Talk has been a banger,tho i can't help but worry.

 

[Lord Lambert]

I trust in Johan Al-Gaib. He will show us to water. It is written.

 

[MasterPaw]

Its not necessarimy 500 years of content, its 500 year of game, the content canne focused ar the beginning (but I expect to see something like imperator missions which are dynamic so would last for the whole game)

Although I think it's doable, because eu4 has had content overwritten (mts), and doing more is a question of resources, and I think content production can scale relatively well by just adding more people on it.
Ofc I hope quality of it is good

I don't see why the mechanics would make it necessary that harder to make. Taking "best" parts doesn't make those part harder to make (especially as its an iteration of something they have experience with). Still hard but like every complex strategy game is hard to make and balance (that's why open betas and early access can be good)

Then about overhyped, yes it is definitely something that can happen

 

[ero_sk]

With higher stakes come higher risks, so of course there's some degree of uncertainty how it will all work out in practice. My main hopes come from the fact that given what we've seen so far, and Johan's track record (even when something wasn't entirely a success, such as I:R), we'll be getting an evolution and not revolution. It also seems that the game will remain a solid spiritual successor to EU4. And evolving is always less risky that introducing some radical changes.

 

[Mef]

Paradox Tinto sounded like an ambitious and risky project from the start, so why not go all in?

As a player who is very experienced in PDS games, I'd rather have a game that's ambitious and daring, than something that's just the same as what I've played before.

 

[Ahmadmltft]

Its not necessarimy 500 years of content, its 500 year of game, the content canne focused ar the beginning (but I expect to see something like imperator missions which are dynamic so would last for the whole game)

Although I think it's doable, because eu4 has had content overwritten (mts), and doing more is a question of resources, and I think content production can scale relatively well by just adding more people on it.
Ofc I hope quality of it is good

I don't see why the mechanics would make it necessary that harder to make. Taking "best" parts doesn't make those part harder to make (especially as its an iteration of something they have experience with). Still hard but like every complex strategy game is hard to make and balance (that's why open betas and early access can be good)

Then about overhyped, yes it is definitely something that can happen

I don't think the game would be profitable enough for that amount of investment.Don't get me wrong,EU is Paradox's flagship series,and it certainly is quite well known among GSG fans,but PC isn't going to be as mainstream as CK3 or HOI4,due to a number of reasons(historical period, focus of the game and the complexity),so "adding more people" and "question of resources" is easier said than done.

 

[Ekyman]

I don't think the game would be profitable enough for that amount of investment.Don't get me wrong,EU is Paradox's flagship series,and it certainly is quite well known among GSG fans,but PC isn't going to be as mainstream as CK3 or HOI4,due to a number of reasons(historical period, focus of the game and the complexity),so "adding more people" and "question of resources" is easier said than done.

EU4 currently averages more players than CK3 does at most times, though CK3 has higher spikes at DLC releases. It probably won't hit the heights of HOI but it wouldn't be surprising at all if PC is perfectly competitive with CK3 (assuming it's a quality game on release obviously).

 

[Theodoric of Bern]

Judgement day will of course be on release.

I do commend the ambition, however - the genre needs an evolution and even if they fail to transmute gold and just create porcelain, that's still an achievement.

It does also seem like Johan has both learned some important lessons and is personally invested in the project, which bodes well for the alchemy.

 

[Nnorm]

Im a pessimist.
I don't think AI could handle game systems, i don't think we'd get into the endgame as swiftly as in EU4, due to enormous lags, and i think managing all those goods, and waiting until i have 0.05 of woods, 0.03 of iron etc to build something, will be frustrating experience. I'm definitely not hyped. I don't think Paradox is able to deliver such a big title in satisfactory condition, and last years only confirm that.

 

[Nnorm]

It does also seem like Johan has both learned some important lessons and is personally invested in the project, which bodes well for the alchemy.

Nothing indicates that so far he has learned important lessons, or that his personal investment into project will in fact help the title with better quality. It is all wishful thinking.

 

[Briloner]

am a slightly worried? yes and no:

• yes, because already they introduced a dizzying amount of changes - and probably more to come.
• no, because
  • they have a lot of experience
  • they reflected a lot on "imperator rome" (which never caught me fully, but was pretty good in all iterations imho) --> but still, they have / especially Johan has listened, has learnt and has changed (which is really difficult at a job, you already have quite some experience - and probably more so than most of your critics!)
  • they took their time and are taking their time still by using the inofficial announcement via "Tinto Talks" --> they had and still have time 7 buffer for changes.

--> all in all, the systems are very thought out; I have seen the right amount of detail and abstraction, e.g. more goods as vicky, but still streamline0d goods and production-methods.
Thus i am very optimistic.

 

[Álvaro Núñez de Lara]

I am very hyped but it is true a bit of scepticism after latest releases remains.

I am a firm believer that we wont be able to really judge the game until we see video footage of how it plays. At least then you can actually see how the game plays and if it all works as shown to as and fits together as intended.

Thats why im hoping for some video gameplay way ahead of release, so we can give proper feedback ahead. Its one of the problems of Victoria 3, they didnt show any footage until the very last day. Then it was already too late.

 

[Álvaro Núñez de Lara]

Nothing indicates that so far he has learned important lessons, or that his personal investment into project will in fact help the title with better quality. It is all wishful thinking.

Oh yeah its not like we have years of Johans forum posts and 10 Dev Diaries showing that he has learnt the lessons and 10...

There is NO INDICATION whatsoever.


These people man xD

 

[Briloner]

Im a pessimist.
I don't think AI could handle game systems, i don't think we'd get into the endgame as swiftly as in EU4, due to enormous lags, and i think managing all those goods, and waiting until i have 0.05 of woods, 0.03 of iron etc to build something, will be frustrating experience. I'm definitely not hyped. I don't think Paradox is able to deliver such a big title in satisfactory condition, and last years only confirm that.

I agree, that classic problems of AI will rear their heads. Though probably not too bad - but we do not know.

Furthermore, big changes will introduce potential disappointments and errors. but I have seen / read about nothing tangible, so far.

Nothing indicates that so far he has learned important lessons, or that his personal investment into project will in fact help the title with better quality. It is all wishful thinking.

At this point I really would like to ask what you mean, because you imply that
a) Johan is in principle immune to learning
b) has displayed concrete examples of repeating known errors. (not learning important lessons?)
What are those?

-------------------------------
I do not want to appear as mindless fan, but I think criticism should be warrented: And yes currently everybody is on an unrealistic hype-train.
But do you have spied weaknesses we overlooked or do you want to play the critic for criticisms case?

 

[Nnorm]

Oh yeah its not like we have years of Johans forum posts and 10 Dev Diaries showing that he has learnt the lessons and 10...

There is NO INDICATION whatsoever.

What lessons again? And what DD's have to do with what the quality of the game at launch?

These people man xD

Yeah, how come these people be realistic instead of gushing over someone's genius.

At this point I really would like to ask what you mean, because you imply that
a) Johan is in principle immune to learning
b) has displayed concrete examples of repeating known errors. (not learning important lessons?)
What are those?

I didn't say he is in principle immune to learning. Someone saying "oh yeah, mistakes have been made", does not imply he a) won't repeat them b) make a new ones. I need to wait further into dev diaries because it's too early to judge such things, and it's repeated as a truism on this forum.

 

[Álvaro Núñez de Lara]

What lessons again? And what DD's have to do with what the quality of the game at launch?


Yeah, how come these people be realistic instead of gushing over someone's genius.

I didn't say he is in principle immune to learning. Someone saying "oh yeah, mistakes have been made", does not imply he a) won't repeat them b) make a new ones. I need to wait further into dev diaries because it's too early to judge such things, and it's repeated as a truism on this forum.

You didnt say anything about the quality of the game. You mentioned that Johan has not learnt ANY lesson, which is obviously not true.

That does not mean the game is guaranteed to be perfect. We will need to judge it on release.

 

[bokorthedust]

 

[Nnorm]

You didnt say anything about the quality of the game. You mentioned that Johan has not learnt ANY lesson, which is obviously not true.

Oh, did i? Where i said that?

That does not mean the game is guaranteed to be perfect. We will need to judge it on release.

And that is what i do. Despite people overhyping the game because "Johan does tinto talks", "learnt his lessons", and "comunicate a lot". And to be fair, i see more and more things that concerns me (the strange market access, and supplies for that matter). And as for the tinto talks - they are just a dev diaries, when Johann talks what will be in the game, we discuss that, and that's basically it.

 

[Borgratz]

I think the game that some people are hyping up in their heads might be the most awesome and ambitious piece of software that has ever been made, but the actual game seems to be a pretty safe continuation of systems we had before.

I would say that Vicky 3 (let's completly rebuild how war works in our games) and stellaris (let's mash two genres together and see what happens!) were both much more reckl....ambitious projects.

So I think, IF(!) there is a day one shitstorm followed by a year of people discussing steam charts numbers instead of playing the game, it will be because the game is just a safe and functional version of what we had before and that was just not enough to be a success for the audience outside of this forum/temple.

(not saying that that's going to happen, I have no idea how many people are both interested in EU4 and Vicky 2 AND are actually willing to to leave their favorite games ever behind for something new)

 

[Lord Lambert]

Nothing indicates that so far he has learned important lessons, or that his personal investment into project will in fact help the title with better quality. It is all wishful thinking.

Your ignorance does not mean nothing has been learned. Your pessimism is unfounded.