In Depth Commercial and Industrial Zoning Options

[inqinc]

EDIT: Thank you for 30+ upvotes! Major Changes have been made to this suggestion which can be located in Post #15!
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



As it stands, players have very little control over when and where the various types of Commercial and Industrial buildings spawn.

This often leads to scenarios such as five Gas Stations side-to-side or other unrealistic logic such as placing massive numbers of Storage Facilities instead of Processing Facilities to work through the materials being stored (Seemingly forever for most facilities.)

I propose a reworking of the Zoning Tools to have similar amounts of options to the Housing Tab.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

[COMMERCIAL]
Low/Medium Density Service:
(Gas Station, Oil & Tire Change, Drive-Thru Restaurants, etc) | (Gas Station, Vehicle Repair & Maintenance, Travel Agency, Dine-In Restaurant, etc)

Low/High Density Essentials:
(Food & Grocery, Convenience Stores, Liquor Stores, etc) | (Malls, Department Stores, Large Movie Theaters, etc)

Low/High Density Comfort:
(Used Car Lots, Furniture, Clothing, Motels, etc) | (New Car Salesplaces, Electronics, Home Improvement, Hotels, etc)

Low/Medium Density Leisure:
(Toy Stores, Sporting Goods, Small Movie Theaters, Coffee Shops, Bars/Pubs, Music Stores, etc) | (Pool Hall, Indoor Sports, Public Library, Internet Cafe, etc)


I propose the following Milestones for each type:

Milestone 0: Low Density Service
Milestone 0: Low Density Essentials
Milestone 1: Low Density Comfort
Milestone 2: Low Density Leisure
Milestone 4: Medium Density Service
Milestone 4: Medium Density Leisure
Milestone 8: High Density Essentials
Milestone 10: High Density Comfort
_____________________________________________________________________________________

[INDUSTRIAL]
Warehouse - Noise Pollution Only. Supply Storage, Supplied by Specialized Industry, Diminished by Commercial Buildings, and used both ways by the following Industrial Types.
Light Industry - Low Pollution, generally consumer-facing. Can be placed nearby Residential and Commercial Buildings Within Reason.
Heavy Industry - High Pollution, employs high amounts of workers. Cannot be placed nearby Residential and Commercial Buildings Without Complaints.

This type of Industry expansion would in turn, create opportunities to better manage Traffic within a City.

It would also enable a higher flexibility in the placement of certain industries, such as Warehouses that produce Zero Polution and Light Industry that produces Low Pollution.
Heavy Industry that produces High Pollution would maintain its preferred location Down Wind & Separated from Housing and Commercial space.

I propose the following Milestones for each type:

Milestone 0: Light Industry
Milestone 1: Warehouse
Milestone 3/4: Heavy Industry
____________________________________________________________________________________

[DEMAND]

This would also be a fantastic excuse to make the "Demand" tab on the City Information Screen more useful and worth checking over time!

COMMERCIAL DEMAND -> Split into Low Density, Medium Density, and High Density
Gas Station Availability -> Service/Service
Motel/Hotel Demand -> Comfort/Comfort
Etc.

INDUSTRIAL DEMAND
Remove +/- Local Demand -> Add +/- [Type] Demand
___________________________________________________________________________________


Ultimately, one would ideally be able to find balance in some split percentage distribution rather than leaving it up to the game to, oftentimes incorrectly, or overly decide for you immediately after unpausing.

This would provide a much more immersive simulation & would also provide another shining way to separate [Cities: Skylines] from [Cities: Skylines II]

Thank you for your consideration!
_____________________________________________________________________________________

EDITS:
Modified Industry to match suggestion within thread
Modified Commercial to consider suggestion within thread

 

[Dr.Narwhal]

I think this is a great suggestion! If this feels too complicated another possible change could be breaking down Industrial Zones into Light and Heavy Industry.

These are land use categories that cities zone, and the reasons in real life are exactly the same as how players would use it:

Light Industry - Low Pollution Industry, generally consumer-facing. It can be near residential

Heavy Industry - High Pollution. Ideally, these would employ lots of workers (A High-Density Version of Industrial Zones)

This could give players more control over their cities, build cities closer to real life, and increase city variety without unnecessarily increasing complexity or departing too far from CS2's idea of cities having to contend with market forces.

It's also important that this is implemented as a base game feature instead of something that players mod in, as a modder implementation could lead to an increasing number of incompatibilities and general headaches.

 

[inqinc]

... another possible change could be breaking down Industrial Zones into Light and Heavy Industry ...

Light Industry - Low Pollution Industry, generally consumer-facing. It can be near residential

Heavy Industry - High Pollution. Ideally, these would employ lots of workers (A High-Density Version of Industrial Zones)

I can totally get behind this simplified version! I still think, however, that Warehouses should be their own separate type of Zoning.

Adding +/- Warehouse Demand would be a simple and effective way of managing your overages

While Special Industry would primarily Supply Warehouses,
Light and Heavy Industry would both Supply and Diminish Warehouses.
Commercial Buildings would Diminish Warehouses.

A system like this could provide a much more manageable traffic system within your Industrial Districts, as traffic from Light Industry would rarely cross paths with traffic from Heavy Industry

It's also important that this is implemented as a base game feature instead of something that players mod in, as a modder implementation could lead to an increasing number of incompatibilities and general headaches.

I 100% agree that changes like this should be made to the base game, and not something introduced via DLC or Mods in the future!

Thanks for your input! I think your system of industry sounds more realistic and easier for both the development team and the player!

ETA extra details

 

[inqinc]

I've edited the OP to include your suggestions as I think they are much more cohesive than what I'd originally suggested

 

[Dranna]

I'm not sure if this fits this post, but I'd love to see medium sized buildings for commercial (and, hopefully, offices too)

 

[inqinc]

I'm not sure if this fits this post, but I'd love to see medium sized buildings for commercial (and, hopefully, offices too)

I put some thought into this as well, but I couldn't come up with many industries that would be exclusive to a Medium Density environment - That wouldn't be appropriate for a Low or High Density environment.

I'd love to hear some further thoughts on this!

 

[Dranna]

I agree, I also couldn't think on medium density industries, light and heavy industries covers it all, the print size doesn't really matter. I believe that medium densities only fits commercial and offices.

 

[inqinc]

I believe that medium densities only fits commercial.

I was asking specifically for you to expand upon this part of your reply. There's already a popular post -> HERE <- about Medium Density Offices

I was putting a little thought into it though, and I could imagine Medium Density Service that simply supplies the same services as Low Density Service but on a scale fit for both Medium and High Density areas. I'll try to put some more thought into it so I can modify the OP. Thank you for your input!

Edit: OP Updated

 

[inqinc]

I've been considering the following changes!
____________________________________________________________________

Clothing -> Low Density Essentials
Liquor Store -> Low Density Leisure
Small Movie Theater -> Medium Density Leisure
Large Movie Theater -> High Density Leisure
____________________________________________________________________

Low/High Density Leisure -> Low/Medium/High Density Leisure:
(Toy Stores, Liquor Store, Movie Rental, Coffee Shop, Pawn Shop, etc)
(Sporting Goods, Bars/Pubs, Small Movie Theaters, Internet Cafe, Music Store, etc)
(Sports Venue, Casino, Large Movie Theater, Public Library, Concert Hall, etc)
____________________________________________________________________

Low/High Density Comfort -> Medium/High Density Comfort:
(Used Car Lot, Phone Store, Furniture, Motel, Counselor, Massage Parlor, etc)
(New Car Salesplace, Electronics, Home Improvement, Hotel, Therapist, Chiropractor, etc)
_____________________________________________________________________

Milestone 0: Low Density Service
Milestone 0: Low Density Essentials
Milestone 1: Medium Density Comfort
Milestone 2: Low Density Leisure
Milestone 4: Medium Density Service
Milestone 6: Medium Density Leisure
Milestone 9: High Density Essentials
Milestone 10: High Density Comfort
Milestone 11: High Density Leisure
_____________________________________________________________________

While this creates Nine different Commercial Zones; it would be Three of each Density, each with its own versions of the same handful of Sub-Types

This would also provide Unlockables for Milestones 10 and 11

 

[KeiserWiliem]

How about just allow us to check and uncheck every type of commercial/industrial/office company category.
It's not that many categories for each. Then we can choose what we want to mix and what we don't.
Much simpler then having many different zone types.
The harder part would be to make a UI that makes it clear what you already zones in the zoning view.

The other idea would be to allow us to ban certain company types for each district.
But districts might be too large for that.

 

[inqinc]

It's not that many categories for each.

While crafting this suggestion, I tried to include possible additions to each type of Commercial Zoning Type via additional Commercial Building Types.

As it stands, many of the Business Models I listed aren't available.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Example:

Coffee, Alcohol
MATERIAL GOOD "Beverage" -> Alcoholic Drinks, Non-Alcoholic Drinks

Alcoholic and Non-Alcoholic Drinks would be produced using Glass + Grain or Vegetables, plus some Water.

Industry could be expanded to add MATERIAL GOOD "Glass" as a production from Stone + Minerals

Glass could be Utilized by Social Environments, such as Coffee Shop, Bar/Pub, Casino.
Glass could be Utilized by Bottling Industries and Furniture Industries, as well as Home Improvement.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Example:

Toys, Sporting Goods
MATERIAL GOOD -> "Playthings"

Playthings would be produced using Wood, Livestock, Metals.

Playthings Industrial Buildings would produce things like Toys & Sports Gear
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The harder part would be to make a UI that makes it clear what you already zones in the zoning view.

As for UI:

The "Demand" tab on the City Information Screen could be updated to include Demand/Demand/Demand +/- Type/Type/Type

The UI is also already suited to highlight "Suitability" for different Zoning Types, this would be little to no different.

 

[alcarcalimo2364]

I think this a great idea, however it makes zoning needlessly complex in a way that I don’t think CO would ever implement it, especially with regards to commercial zoning. I do think we need separate zoning categories for industrial though. Warehouses could easily be implemented as ploppable buildings (ie small, medium and large warehouses).

That being said, if they could get their economic simulation working properly, I could see the commercial side being handled by the simulation. If you have too many gas stations, for example, then they shouldn’t be as profitable, the building should despawn, and the simulation should choose a business that is under serving the population at that time. And your breakdown of businesses would be a good starting point for how that simulation should work.

 

[aubergine18]

Maybe have icons on the zones relating to the various resources/goods - eg. food, furniture, clothing.

So, like the industry I could have wood and furniture near each other, then in a big shopping area I could put things like clothes shopping, furniture shopping, and so on, zone them and relevant shops would appear. Maybe near some big intersection I could zone some vehicle commerce to get car show rooms, gas stations, etc.

EDIT: We could have the zone determine the building size (small, med, large) and by default it would get random selection of the resources/goods available, but also have a tab with icons for resources/goods and selecting an icon then left click to add it, right click to remove it. So I could say 'this zone is going to get clothes and/or furniture', and the game would then restrict buildings in that zone to the applicable resources/goods.

 

[GrumpyBeagle]

Yes please! I am so sick of zoning commercial zones only for it to be 3 vehicle dealers and 5 food stores all together xD

 

[inqinc]

Hello all! It's been some time since I've made these suggestions and I've put some thought into it.

I've taken all of your comments into consideration and I've simplified the Commercial section of this post.

I've also added a Quality of Life section where smaller changes could be made for ease of access and clarity!

This is what I've landed on for a feasible base game update

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[COMMERCIAL ZONING]​

Low/High Density Essentials:
(Food & Grocery, Convenience, Furniture, Motels, etc) | (Malls, Department Stores, Home Improvement, Hotels, etc)

Medium Density Service:
(Gas Station, Travel Agency, Drive-Thru/Dine-In Restaurant, etc)

Medium Density Comfort:
(Clothing, Car Salesplaces, Electronics, Movie Theater, etc)

Medium/High Density Leisure:
(Toys, Sporting Goods, Bars/Pubs, Internet Cafe, etc) | (Sports Venue, Casino, Public Library, Concert Hall, etc)


I propose the following Milestones for each type:

Milestone 0: Low Density Essentials
Milestone 1: Medium Density Service
Milestone 2: Medium Density Comfort
Milestone 5: Medium Density Leisure
Milestone 8: High Density Essentials
Milestone 10: High Density Leisure
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[INDUSTRIAL ZONING]​

Warehouse:
Noise Pollution, supply storage.
Supplied by Specialized Industry, Diminished by Commercial Buildings, and used both ways by the following Industrial Types.

Light Industry:
Low Pollution, generally consumer-facing.
- Employs few Well-Educated and Highly-Educated citizens, increasing with level ups
- Can be placed nearby Residential and Commercial Buildings within reason.

Heavy Industry:
High Pollution, employs high amounts of workers.
- Employs few Uneducated citizens
- Cannot be placed nearby Residential and Commercial Buildings without complaints.


I propose the following Milestones for each type:

Milestone 0: Light Industry
Milestone 2: Warehouse
Milestone 4: Heavy Industry

The use of Warehouses should be able to prevent major cross traffic between Civilians and both Industry types as well as any Commercial vehicles in need of supplies
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[DEMAND]​

The Demand Bars displayed on the Main UI could be adjusted to look something like this:

Warehouses and Offices would share space as Utility-Type Demand Bars

COMMERCIAL DEMAND
Remove +/- Local Demand -> Add +/- [Type] Demand

INDUSTRIAL DEMAND
Remove +/- Local Demand -> Add +/- [Type] Demand
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[QUALITY OF LIFE CHANGES]​

-- Visual Indicator Icons showing Commercial Building Type and Warehouse Contents, Accessed through Infoview Panels

-- Infoview Changes:

COMMERCIAL INFOVIEW
Remove:
[√] Commercial Buildings
Add:
[√] Essentials Buildings
[√] Service Buildings
[√] Comfort Buildings
[√] Leisure Buildings
... Signature Buildings, Suitability, Customers ...
[√] Business Icons

INDUSTRIAL INFOVIEW
Remove:
[√] Industrial Buildings
Add:
[√] Light Industrial Buildings
[√] Heavy Industrial Buildings
... Signature Buildings, Suitability, Deposits, Wind ...
[√] Warehouses
[√] Warehouse Storage Icons
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I'd like to thank you all again for your time, consideration, and input! Without such things I wouldn't have taken the time to refine the OP to such extents <3

 

[rhuneau]

I've been following the discussion about revamping zoning tools in Cities: Skylines 2 with great interest. To add a layer of realism to our city-building experience, let's consider some real-world economic sector distributions by numbers.

1. Primary Sector: In a city's early development stages, this sector could take up 30-40% of the total area, focusing on agriculture and natural resources. This percentage would gradually decrease as the city evolves.
2. Secondary Sector: During growth phases, this sector might occupy around 25-35% of urban space, showcasing a mix of light and heavy industries. Heavy industrial zones would require specific strategies for pollution management and residential proximity.
3. Tertiary Sector: In a fully developed city, this sector should represent 40-50% or more of the urban area, with a range from small shops to large shopping centers. This growth could lead to traffic challenges, calling for more sophisticated transport planning.

Labor-wise, early stages might see 20-30% of workers in the primary sector, 30-40% in secondary, and 30-50% in tertiary. As the city develops, primary sector labor could drop to less than 10%, while tertiary might shoot up to 60-70%.

Linking these figures to game development milestones would offer players a more immersive, strategic experience. They'd need to adapt their zoning and urban development approach in line with their city's demographic and economic evolution.