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freedavebrown

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Oct 25, 2013
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I am gonna try an England --> GB world conquest run (win the HYW etc). I was looking for advice on Idea groups. My current thinking is something like:

1 Administrative
2 Exploration
3 Religious
4 Quantity/Aristo (for flavor)
5 Diplomatic/Influence

After that I think I would want maybe maritime (for the decisions and to maybe go for Grand Armada). Maybe offensive. Maybe Expansion for the CB.

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks!
 
First off, good luck! Secondly, some links.

I'm finishing up a England/GB achievement run (35 years left). I wasn't as aggressive as I could've been, so it wasn't a WC, but is ending up fairly well. Shameless self-promotion, check it out here.

Before my run, I asked many of the same questions here.

For specifics on the HYW, I found this thread invaluable.

One of my biggest regrets in the run was not taking Religious much sooner. Don't know where it would've fit, but the Deus Vult is rather powerful. Once I realized how powerful, I took it as 4th or 5th idea only for Deus Vult, and refunded the amount once Imperialism was available. Deus Vult is ridiculously good against ROTW (and heretics) not necessarily because it lets you war with a CB, but simply because all their land becomes justified demands, allowing you to take non-claimed land at 0 DIP, saving precious amounts for integrating vassals, tech levels (don't get too far behind or your ships will be behind & you'll be crippled colonially), idea groups, reducing war exhaustion (sure to be needed often), and other war options like returning cores or releasing nations.

On that note, one thing to remember is that if you go the vassal route (which, as a non-core-heavy nation is good), forcing return cores can be handy for getting a vassal's attitude high if you've recently annexed several. E.G., in my current game, I can't annex Nogai because of a -150-ish modifier from annexed vassals, whereas some other vassals got a +200 to relations because I had returned cores rather than simply transferring occupation & taking the land. It might cost a little DIP, but helps a lot.

I generally don't recommend choosing an ADM idea for a first one, since that slows down your 2nd idea group. DIP is almost always my first choice.

Finally, while winning the HYW can be painful, keeping France is I think more painful. She'll try to get independence all the time, and even if you keep her at +200 with Improve Relations, she gets frequent events for a negative malus. Beheaded Nobles, Backward Monarch, and another one I forget. In my run, I ended up on the third attempt to just take land. If you opt for the PU, a highly recommended option I've seen is to make quick war with someone to release Guyenne after the HYW. Because you have a core in Guyenne land, and France has much of it, she'll be forced to give up her Guyenne cores as well. Then you can conquer Guyenne and take the lands for yourself later. But this weakens France enough to help reduce her independence desires. I would integrate ASAP.

edit- p.s., I also regret not taking on colonies/colonizers sooner. While Castile & Portugal were essentially crippled on the main land, their NW colonies were a PITA and continued to grow. If you act fast, taking out their island holdings and taking Arguin on Africa's west coast help to cut down their range.

Also note that you can't core Iceland until you have at least one of the islands between Scotland & Iceland cored. Another reason to improve your DIP tech is to increase your coring range.
 
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I think you want quantity in there a bit sooner, even if you are going to use France as a beat-stick.

For a WC, the first thing you are going to want to do is neuter the Iberians. While you are neutering the Iberians, you may as well use the Atlantic islands you steal from them to get a head start on colonizing yourself. For this reason, I would recommend opening with Exploration.

1) Exploration (For explorers mostly, but might as well use the whole idea group)
2) Quantity (Even with France doing your dirty work in Europe, this boosts land + naval force limits and saves a ton of $)
3) Expansion (Open Humanist first to deal with your transition to reformed if needed. 2 extra colonists, an extra relations slot, settler increase, and trade power. Done.)
4) Religious (All-purpose CB as reformed, fervor, TTF, cheaper stab. What's not to like?)
5) Influence (You're big enough to diplo-vassalize big nations now, the dip rep and integration cost will come in handy)
6) Quality (Policies)
7+8) Whatever

Best WC strategy as England:

1) Beat up France
2) Feed Scotland to gargantuan size
3) Press button to integrate
 
Best WC strategy as England:

1) Beat up France
2) Feed Scotland to gargantuan size
3) Press button to integrate

This. Gamey, but it does the trick. I wish I'd done it in my game. Just be careful for Scotland's independence desire because large vassals will start to get "relative power to liege" malus.
 
England starts with a shit monarch, so points are at more of a premium early on than most others. You also have a really heavy need for dip points and soon. With this in mind you may want to consider exploration first instead of second, if you can get away with it (admin's mercs are absolutely amazing for coming back and winning the HYW, don't get me wrong), as it'll save you the most dip in the long run and the naval FL means its only mostly but not entirely wasted pre-dip-tech-7. I honestly don't know whether it's viable here or not but it may be.

I love religious - see my humanist vs religious thread novel - but I don't like it on England. If you tolerate lollards there's no good reason to stay catholic, and you are one of the furthest starting nations in the world from anyone you can actually touch with deus vult - I would think expansion, which is same MP pool as religious, may serve you better. Hard to say for sure. Being on an island, with nothing but catholics for a while, and getting -unrest in ideas, and being filthy goddamn rich so I can just raise autonomy on everything I touch... I would want to skirt both religious and humanist and just get to the mp savings faster.

I haven't done a WC attempt on England; take my post as total speculation.
 
I love religious - see my humanist vs religious thread novel - but I don't like it on England. If you tolerate lollards there's no good reason to stay catholic, and you are one of the furthest starting nations in the world from anyone you can actually touch with deus vult - I would think expansion, which is same MP pool as religious, may serve you better. Hard to say for sure. Being on an island, with nothing but catholics for a while, and getting -unrest in ideas, and being filthy goddamn rich so I can just raise autonomy on everything I touch... I would want to skirt both religious and humanist and just get to the mp savings faster.

I haven't done a WC attempt on England; take my post as total speculation.

Yeah, no England WC here either, for the record.

I think you take religious at some point, but there's no need to grab it early on. You're probably going to have to tolerate Lollards to have a chance at the HYW, so Catholic is pretty useless to you. Reformed vs Protestant isn't much of a comparison, so I'm going to assume you are taking Reformed. Scotland getting a Protestant COR would be a big pain in the ass, but otherwise you can probably rely on your COR to do your converting for you, and delay Religious until 14.

Once you are reformed and are off conquering the world, Deus Vult will be pretty useful for Scotland feeding. Free provinces + Free Integration is pretty good, as is the +fervor, tolerance, and stability. Don't see much of a reason to take Administrative, you're feeding Scotland everything outside the channel node until the later game anyway.
 
If annexing, other vassals have to be diplomatically annexed, costing DIP. Scotland's integration (at least in the current patch) can be done in an instant with a single click on the "Form Great Britain" option.
 
Yeah, no England WC here either, for the record.

I think you take religious at some point, but there's no need to grab it early on. You're probably going to have to tolerate Lollards to have a chance at the HYW, so Catholic is pretty useless to you. Reformed vs Protestant isn't much of a comparison, so I'm going to assume you are taking Reformed. Scotland getting a Protestant COR would be a big pain in the ass, but otherwise you can probably rely on your COR to do your converting for you, and delay Religious until 14.

Once you are reformed and are off conquering the world, Deus Vult will be pretty useful for Scotland feeding. Free provinces + Free Integration is pretty good, as is the +fervor, tolerance, and stability. Don't see much of a reason to take Administrative, you're feeding Scotland everything outside the channel node until the later game anyway.

The problem with going non-catholic as England seems to me to be that if you integrate France and don't have humanism you are going to get WRECKED by religous turmoil. France's land always seems to stay basically all catholic.

My HYW strategy doesn't really require one thing or another for Lollards because I just pull out of France entirely, take over Ireland, vassalize Scotland, deal with the lollards and war of the roses, then go back and beat the crap out of France when I out-tech them on Mil (not hard with Mil focus).

I would LOVE to go Reformed as England but I fear that if I try to integrate a catholic France without humanism I am going to end up in a world of hurt. Has anyone had success doing this?
 
The problem with going non-catholic as England seems to me to be that if you integrate France and don't have humanism you are going to get WRECKED by religous turmoil. France's land always seems to stay basically all catholic.

By default, reformed has +2 tolerance of heretics. You can get another one by taking a decision that adds only 5% stab cost. If you have 100 legitimacy (or are a noble republic for some reason, doubtful) you will have 2 tolerance of heretics.

Even at 1 tolerance (legitimacy is mediocre, but you take the decision), each heretic province while in reformed has 1 tolerance, meaning it contributes 50% to your religious unity, while your true faith provinces contribute 100% to unity. You need to have 75% unity or less for religious turmoil to fire.

Basically if you take that decision + go reformed, you can have only heretic provinces and not get the disaster. At 1-2 tolerance, you shouldn't have any problem getting unity over 75% with zeal on switching, even less so if you get a center of reformation. Even annexing France, you should be able to get enough conversions to keep unity where you need it to be unless your legitimacy sucks eggs.