How to defeat China with Japan

[Pandrea]

Ok, I know this is a super noob question but... how can I defeat China with Japan?

August 1938, Nanjing is surrounded, so Chinese forces are supplied by warlord near Turkestan. This means they are out of supplies by 2 o'clock every day.

But they're still too strong! Or better: too many! They have near 200 divisions, much more than me. I have occupied all eastern coast, so I could activate the first Jap peace proposal (refused). But now I'm completely on defense, I have barely 3/6 division on any province and they attack me with 20/30 divisions, I can stand with cavalry as mobile reserve but not for long. I don't know where to encircle them, Chinese infrastructures are awful and when on attack I'm just pushing them back without annihilation.

I'm full of IC (>120, more than France or UK) but I have already full mobilized. Mod is All in a one

 

[Altruist]

I don't know the All in One Mod... and I have played China (with Edge of Darkenss mod) but not Japan.
So, from the perspective of China... China is for quite a while a paper-tiger. Upto 100 divisions are blocked and can't be moved (which changes sometime in 1938, don't know wether those blocked units are also blocked for the AI, though), additionally China gets a -50% on IC when at war (also until around 1938 and I assume this is also incorporated in the All in One mod which usually means China's TC is deep in the red and the units slow like snakes), the Japanese conquest of Nanjing triggers the massacre and the armies shattered event which significantly lowers the max org of the Chinese units.

So, yes, if it is already August 1938 and you are in a poor position as Japan, I'd reckon it will become even harder when many of the bad events for China get neutralized either soon or are already lifted.

If I would play Japan and keen on conquering China, I'd probably try the following:
1) Building a few MOTs for better encirclement options (or upgrading them from cav or inf). Together with cheap AC-brigades they are quite sturdy and excellent to take the brunt of counter-attacks which will burden Japan's manpower less.
2) Building a few TAC (and a few fighter to aid and protect them) to gain the ability to focus some additional firepower on provinces. Planes can be also shifted much faster to other theaters. Also low on manpower need, Japans ability to produce inf is probably limited by manpower.
3) 4 long serial production lines of airports to place them whenever and wherever needed. In the back one good airport of some levels in a good infra-region for repairs and reorg.
4) Concentrating on only one piece of China, be it a warlord area or National China, arrowlike towards their victory pts provinces for fast annexation. Repeat with next. Guanxi Clique and Yunnan Clique have each only one VP-province that needs to be conquered, Shanxi two.
5) Beware the commis if they are still around. Their units are the best and strongest.
6) Trying to be as quick as possible to hit China worst as long as it is still weakened by events and blocked units.

If the All in One mod starts already in 1933, I'd set quite a few of my Japanese infantry to passively upgrade to mountain units (passively=very slow but automatic upgrade without allocating IC to the upgrade-slider).

Eugenioso wouldn't agree but I'd also switch from LI to the mobility land doctrine, 29-33% additional GDE is the biggest fastest bang one can get for land units. Even more so if limited by manpower. MOT, Mtn, no brigades or only a few, careful management of TC-load should make up for the loss in speed by switching from LI to mobility.

 

[Eugenioso]

Ok, I know this is a super noob question but... how can I defeat China with Japan?

August 1938, Nanjing is surrounded, so Chinese forces are supplied by warlord near Turkestan. This means they are out of supplies by 2 o'clock every day.

But they're still too strong! Or better: too many! They have near 200 divisions, much more than me. I have occupied all eastern coast, so I could activate the first Jap peace proposal (refused). But now I'm completely on defense, I have barely 3/6 division on any province and they attack me with 20/30 divisions, I can stand with cavalry as mobile reserve but not for long. I don't know where to encircle them, Chinese infrastructures are awful and when on attack I'm just pushing them back without annihilation.

I'm full of IC (>120, more than France or UK) but I have already full mobilized. Mod is All in a one

Ok, lets go over things:

- First, do a full naval blockade. The pathetic chinese navy will prove no challenge to you and will even give you some nice free naval leaders experience, so get about to convoy raiding to deny them ANY resources from outside the world.
- Second, use your army and Manchukuo's one as well, yours for the main push and theirs for holding ground. From the north of China you go for coastal encirclements so they lose a significant amount of army and they cant replenish by sea. If you have the airforce, use it now, as the chinese do have a few interceptors here and there but you will basically have air supremacy from the getgo. Get to ground attacking in the rear and ground support in the frontlines.
- Third, forget about naval landings. You have more than enough to push the land sector easily. After 3 coastal encirclements the AI will simply collapse and you can go land grabbing. After a while the AI will gg and you will win.

 

[Pandrea]

1) Naval blockade can also stop invisible resources shipping from other countries? How?
2) Meng and Manc units are absolutely useless. I don't know why but they have not mobilized and they have 10% strenght since the beginning

 

[Altruist]

1) Naval blockade can also stop invisible resources shipping from other countries? How?

Have you noticed the percentages shown for your trades with other countries? Not necessarily in your present game as Japan because the Chinese Navy is too weak to do much and most if not all your trades will be shown as 100%... but in other games?
The more obstacles (patroling enemy fleets, planes, chokepoints controlled by the enemy...), the lower the percentage.
For example trade between China and Germany in 1940 can be as low as 4.7%. due to the British bloackade Which means if China exchanges 40 rares for 10 supplies, only 4.7% really arrive. So the trade is not only basically cut but both countries actively loose resources. In this example China sends out 40 rares and gets back only 0.47 supplies. Euegenioso called it invisible because neither you can see the trade routes nor do you get any messages like for sunk convoys, it is an automatic process in the background.

For Japan this means: Deploying several fleets on missions along the Chinese coast in the different sea areas or at choke points they have to pass.

While it is not possible to hinder China's trade with the SU because this is via a direct land route, all trades with America, Africa, Europe, Arabia etc. can be affected.
Secure land route is defined as: adjascent country or a land route going thru territory of allies or countries which have given military access.

 

[Pandrea]

They have to be on mission or fleets can just stand in front of Chinese coasts?

 

[Eugenioso]

They can just stand around.

 

[Victor_21]

Lots of great info here that I really can't add to. But I can add visuals in case you want to see 'a plan' (i.e. my tried-true method) in action.

Background:
Build up Army for China. Save Navy/Air Force building until after you've won. I always use "Light Infantry/Infiltration Assault" land doctrine for Japan (i.e. don't invade GER with this setup).

Main event:

1. drive from north of Beijing with the main army (Inf/Mtn) and
2. use naval landings driven relentlessly inward to force encirclements (Mar/Cav/Inf)
3. useful: use naval task forces to disrupt overseas Chinese supply trains
4. also useful: air superiority is guaranteed if you just use planes (anything that can use a ground support mission will work)

For more detail I did an AAR with Japan using TGC, click the sig link for details. Mods vary, strategy works. I average 12-18 months for China on my playthroughs. I'm sure DH war-fighting experts are quicker but it works for me.

China wins by forcing Japanese delay. If you take longer than 18-24 months (and especially if Japan is mixing it up with the Allies), Japan is toast. Chinese MP and doctrine power will eventually be unbeatable for Japan.

Oh and garrison airfields, particularly in China proper. Nothing worse than losing half the IJAAF from a single partisan

Spoiler: First

Spoiler: Second

Spoiler: Drive to Chongqing