How can I take my liege's gavelkind empire title?

[Dahoota]

I'm playing as the kingdom of Nepal under the Empire of Tibet from the 769 start, (CK2+ mod if that matters).

It has reached a point where I am maxed out on demesne and vassal limit and twice as strong as my liege, something has to give. For a few generations I have been attempting to become the emperor.

The problem is my liege appears to be stuck on gavelkind, due to which he always has sibling landed claimants who hate him, which also means a succession of emperors have been fighting civil wars over claims on the top title. Because it's gavelkind, everyone with strong claims on the title gets landed on the death of their father, meaning I can't marry claimants into my family.

There also isn't a faction option to implement elective succession, which would help me push myself onto the throne.

An option might have to be independence, but then I'm stuck with no dejure empire and surrounded by a same-religion realm, which leaves me just as stuck at the kingdom level.

Thoughts?

 

[Dlin369]

Do you have conclave or no conclave?

according to the wiki, you can press for elective if

- you have conclave, council is fully empowered. So just keep spamming factions for more power to vassals

- you don’t have conclave, keep lowering crown authority

 

[Dahoota]

Thanks, I have Conclave, I'll give that a go.

 

[jonjowett]

Because it's gavelkind, everyone with strong claims on the title gets landed on the death of their father, meaning I can't marry claimants into my family.

Another option is to have your son marry your liege's daughter. Then, if your liege dies and then his daughter dies, your grandson will have a weak claim on the empire. Play as that grandson and press your claim on the empire (either via faction, or via direct declaration during a civil war or regency).

 

[Dahoota]

Then, if your liege dies and then his daughter dies, your grandson will have a weak claim on the empire

I think the central problem is that my liege's title is Agnatic - which means daughters are only getting weak claims that aren't passed on to their children.

What I might have to do is marry them as you say, then push the wife's claim on the title via a faction and inherit with the next generation.


Also, I attempted the spamming council power factions. After a successful one, I wasn't able to create a new faction(I guess by design to prevent that behaviour?) The liege just raised the council power again before I could lower it further.

 

[jonjowett]

I think the central problem is that my liege's title is Agnatic - which means daughters are only getting weak claims that aren't passed on to their children.

Are you sure? I would have expected them to get weak but inheritable claims.

What I might have to do is marry them as you say, then push the wife's claim on the title via a faction and inherit with the next generation.

Yes, this works too. However, if you want to retain control of the children (eg. to ensure proper education) then you need to ensure that the husband of the new queen is landed. If she's your wife: no problem. If she's your daughter-in-law: you need to give your son a title before pressing her claim.

Also, I attempted the spamming council power factions. After a successful one, I wasn't able to create a new faction(I guess by design to prevent that behaviour?) The liege just raised the council power again before I could lower it further.

Try murdering your liege. (The reason you can't form a new faction is because you have a truce.)

If you're looking to increase council power, the best time to do so is when your liege is 60+ and/or unhealthy (ie. he's likely to die before the truce expires).

It's also useful to be on the council between faction wars - this allows you to block his attempts to increase council power. Or, alternatively, it makes it easy to accumulate favors from fellow council members (preferably the malcontent ones).

 

[Sunshine Moon]

You could also try and offer concubines to make sure your liege has lots and lots of children--until he has more inheriting children than titles. Then there'll be those unlanded claimants you want.

 

[KhaineFH]

Right click on Tibetan empire's coat of arms, pick the fabricate a claim option. If your plot succeeds you have to attack your liege directly or create a faction.
If your plot fails, start a new one.

 

[Dahoota]

Right click on Tibetan empire's coat of arms, pick the fabricate a claim option. If your plot succeeds you have to attack your liege directly or create a faction.
If your plot fails, start a new one.

Huh. I've been playing this game for years and didn't know you could do that (I always did it via the intrigued menu).

Even with all the Dukes in the realm in the plot, I only get to 45-50% plot power. I'm twice as powerful as the liege and still only generate 15% myself. Maybe I need to kill him a and attempt while in a regency perhaps.

 

[jonjowett]

Even with all the Dukes in the realm in the plot, I only get to 45-50% plot power. I'm twice as powerful as the liege and still only generate 15% myself. Maybe I need to fill him a and attempt while in a regency perhaps.

Maybe a lot of vassals are in prison? They can't join the plot, but their existence reduces the plot power contributed by every other vassal. (This is one of my favourite tactics when I'm the liege )

 

[Dahoota]

Maybe a lot of vassals are in prison? They can't join the plot, but their existence reduces the plot power contributed by every other vassal. (This is one of my favourite tactics when I'm the liege )

There's a small civil war happening at the moment (only two vassals in it), which I think miiiight be the cause.

With all the landed claimants in the realm, it's just been a pretty constant stream of claimant wars happening for the last generation or two, never really allowing my liege to get his troops strength up which just perpetuates the problem.

 

[Yxklyx]

If you're a King under an Empire (or Duke under a King) there should be an available Plot to fabricate a claim on the Empire - I think. So, check your Plot options.

 

[Drake_Hound]

CK2 a thousand ways to get the emperor title.
1 Kill everybody of Emperor Dynasty and KILL everybody else of the dynasty who inherit the throne ... nothing but good old fashion Slaughter...
If lucky you get it right away, if unlucky you might have to murder half the world LOL

2 Fabricate a Claim.

3 Start a Faction demanding succession law change. (since you are the most powerfull or your realm strength is already higher then the Emperor it is a instant go) keep repeating till you get what you want.

4 Marry into the Emperor dynasty by getting a normal marriage for your son. or a matrilinear marriage for your daughter.
Get a kid off with the head of all the people before your son or daughter in line of the Throne.
then off your son or daughter and then off the kid voila you are now emperor.

More ways then the 4 ways I described here to get the throne. infact it is so easy as declaring independence and waiting 5 years and then claiming all his dejure. to ursurp the throne.

 

[Dahoota]

So checking back in - I finally got there using a good old fashioned plot to fabricate a claim.

There was an emperor who was unpopular enough that most vassals in the realm were in the plot, each contributing 1-3% to it. He was a tributary of China too which made the claim war difficult with all the regiments he summoned.