Horses, trade posts and MAPI losses

[Hansatron]

That seems like a very simple and yet very intuitive solution.

Eventually, i suspect the devs will make something analogous to convoys for land based movement of goods (idk 'cargo') and that will sort of give a natural way to tie mapi and trade and volumes together. The usage of "cargo"/land trade seems like it's at the root of what alot of people propose.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

Eventually, i suspect the devs will make something analogous to convoys for land based movement of goods (idk 'cargo') and that will sort of give a natural way to tie mapi and trade and volumes together. The usage of "cargo"/land trade seems like it's at the root of what alot of people propose.

No need. Transport is already a good that is in the game, and it reflect land transport which can additionally be provided by rails.

The difference with sea based transport is the node system. The more sea nodes that youre shipping has to pass, the more ships you need. But thats hard to do for land based transport, since its not "point to point trade" and likely would be very heavy on the game if it were. but you really need some sort of "point to point trade" solution if you wanted to solve it even if you would add similar node's over land.

It can be somewhat modeled perhaps for land trade between country's, since it goes trough the trade screen and thats kinda batch sized point to point trade.

 

[TitaniumMan91]

No need. Transport is already a good that is in the game, and it reflect land transport which can additionally be provided by rails.

The difference with sea based transport is the node system. The more sea nodes that youre shipping has to pass, the more ships you need. But thats hard to do for land based transport, since its not "point to point trade" and likely would be very heavy on the game if it were. but you really need some sort of "point to point trade" solution if you wanted to solve it even if you would add similar node's over land.

It can be somewhat modeled perhaps for land trade between country's, since it goes trough the trade screen and thats kinda batch sized point to point trade.

I don't think it would be hard to do, though I have no idea how it would impact performance. You could create a new node system running through every state that used "trains" or whatever to move goods between markets treated as a overseas colonies are now.

I'm guessing it would absolutely destroy performance, with how things work currently, but I could see the idea turning into a proper logistics system for armies and also being useful for moving goods from state to state until they find enough demand. But that might also require distinct goods instead of capacities, so who knows?

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

I don't think it would be hard to do, though I have no idea how it would impact performance. You could create a new node system running through every state that used "trains" or whatever to move goods between markets treated as a overseas colonies are now.

It would work between markets, it would not work within markets. Between markets is a "point to point trade", one batch of goods goes from one market to the other and depending the nodes it gets more expensive, thats fairly easy though would likely impact performance a bit, it would likely also mean a lot of work for the devs though. But the internal market is not point to point trade, If Russia has 1 factory demanding fish in Sint petersburg and either 1 fishery in Estonia or 1 fishery in Vladivostok providing it with fish the game can't see the difference.

 

[monksimus]

In my opinion, Trade post is just an unnecessary middleman.

I actually think having the middleman is helpful here for both realism and the ease of understanding during gameplay. As of today transportation and warehousing represents about 4% of total employment in the US, so it isn't insignificant (6.7 MM of 158MM total employment). And having a large transportation sector internally would help indicate where the potential inefficiencies are in your economy versus hiding those effects in a tooltip.

 

[zayebeast]

I actually think having the middleman is helpful here for both realism and the ease of understanding during gameplay. As of today transportation and warehousing represents about 4% of total employment in the US, so it isn't insignificant (6.7 MM of 158MM total employment). And having a large transportation sector internally would help indicate where the potential inefficiencies are in your economy versus hiding those effects in a tooltip.

The game already has transportation sector in a form of railways and urban centers. I see no point in creating a variation of it. Also, In my vision transportation price would be represented as an input not as a tooltip.

 

[Oglesby]

You don't want to do this because it would make the game run extremely slow.

The way that Vic3 works is there is no matching of buyers and sellers, which makes things much faster to compute. All goods are sold at the market price regardless of volume and all goods are bought at market price regardless of volume. The only change from 1.4 to 1.5 is market price is now calculated from the national and local price.

This is why you can have mismatches between buy and sell orders without anything breaking.

I would say that the only change from 1.4 to 1.5 is that the addition of MAPI is in effect capping the 1.4 access value at something below 100% ensuring that it is a mix of the national and state price (This was already occurring when states didn't have 100% access).

The new 'access' value is the (market access * MAPI).

 

[TitaniumMan91]

But the internal market is not point to point trade, If Russia has 1 factory demanding fish in Sint petersburg and either 1 fishery in Estonia or 1 fishery in Vladivostok providing it with fish the game can't see the difference.

That's why I'm saying they could be treated as point to point isolated markets reliant on convoys to get goods from one state to the next.

 

[Hansatron]

I don't think it would be hard to do, though I have no idea how it would impact performance. You could create a new node system running through every state that used "trains" or whatever to move goods between markets treated as a overseas colonies are now.

You would do the same thing local prices does, and abstract the calculation into "local" and "national market." Or basically usage is the imbalance between buy and sell orders in that state, since without a shortage all orders do get filled (even if the goods aren't actually made or sold.)

 

[diji]

I don't think it would be hard to do, though I have no idea how it would impact performance. You could create a new node system running through every state that used "trains" or whatever to move goods between markets treated as a overseas colonies are now.

I'm guessing it would absolutely destroy performance, with how things work currently, but I could see the idea turning into a proper logistics system for armies and also being useful for moving goods from state to state until they find enough demand. But that might also require distinct goods instead of capacities, so who knows?

I have no idea how performant it would be, but I wonder if it would suffice to have interconnected regional market nodes, with the cost of the transportation of a good calculated through these nodes, rather than doing it for each state. It wouldn't be as granular but perhaps it would be faster since there would presumably be less computations. e.g., for a good going from New York to California, you might just check the cost along the path from the "North American West Coast" to "North American East Coast" regional market nodes. I don't think it would handle individual state changes well, like if a war or treaty cut off a direct land route from one coast to another, but the performance may be worth it (and it's still a more detailed model of transport distance than what currently exists).

 

[TitaniumMan91]

I have no idea how performant it would be, but I wonder if it would suffice to have interconnected regional market nodes, with the cost of the transportation of a good calculated through these nodes, rather than doing it for each state. It wouldn't be as granular but perhaps it would be faster since there would presumably be less computations. e.g., for a good going from New York to California, you might just check the cost along the path from the "North American West Coast" to "North American East Coast" regional market nodes. I don't think it would handle individual state changes well, like if a war or treaty cut off a direct land route from one coast to another, but the performance may be worth it (and it's still a more detailed model of transport distance than what currently exists).

I've thought about strategic regions as regional markets, but the only coding I know is some python and SQL and I have no interest in actually trying to mod it. If they wanted to be real extra, they could do it by water shed.

 

[Imp0815]

I must admit I think it's not really worthwhile to argue about economic simulation in a game where construction is largely a state-owned operation, production buildings are controlled by the ghost of a nation, and goods are metaphysical and teleported. Additionally, these things keep me from delving deeper into the implications of the economic simulation as I do not see any potential or necessity to invest my time into it or see any useful outcome to it.
The game mainly plays itself, player interactions are arbitrary streamlined to have an elevator pitch and performance can do a nosedive as soon as we think about expanding the simulation.
From the ground up, the accessibility and the idea of reaching a wider audience condemned the game's complexity to either be background, non-interactable, or straight-up cut from the product.

PS:To add a little context to it, I found a guy on YouTube who fills hour-long videos with in-depth discussions and information about how to tackle different features/mechanics in Victoria 3 and the impacts of different numbers, and after watching a sum of them, I came to the conclusion he's on a fool's errand as I ignored mostly all of his advice and analytics and still came out on top with my nations.