• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
By hitting the "define theater" button while at peace.
- For Italy, I had conquered Ethipoia and Yugoslavia, as well as parts of Republican Spain.
- For Japan, it was after conquering China and forcing Vichy France to give up Indochina.

Tomorrow I'll DoW the allies first, then see if I can create the Japanese theaters. (I have better things to do on a Friday night) I'm still not sure if peace is an absolute requirement, or the player needs to conquer regions in pre-defined theaters, i.e. those that exist in later scenarios.
 
Nationalist Spain 1938 - The Journey Continues

I thought I would run a new campaign as a minor using all the features, running the AIIP 1.3.1 mod. Wanted to see how a minor would cope with the HQ AI, and apply the learnings so far.

This won't be anywhere as detailed as before, I am just looking to fine tune the approach.

I chose Nationalist Spain in the 1938 scenario. We find ourselves with the SCW war balanced slightly in favour of the Nataionalists, who are approaching Madrid. They have the Republicans bottled up around Barcelona in the North-East, and there seems to be little activity in the South.

sp01.png


The starting OOB is pretty much ready, only requiring small tweaks. However, I did try to keep the default organisation where the Corps all reported to Franco's Army Group HQ... missing out intermediate Army HQs. This was a very bad idea. Once I had planned the attack and hit run, there was some activity around Madrid (ie near Franco), and little or no activity further away. The learning yet again... if you are going to have an HQ hierarchy, you must ensure they are within radio range of each other. Is there a list of radio ranges out there? How does one know how close you have to be? It is a shame the default OOB ignores this.

So, I restarted and created 3 new Armies with the usual uninspring names ;):

  • Army de Madrid, consisted of 2 strong Corps, supported by 3 air units (as usual the AI split them up immediately - don't ever bother naming your Air Groups if you are going to give them to the AI, it is an exercise in futility).
  • Army de Valencia was 2 Corps, supported by 2 air units and given the objective of taking (surprise, surprise) Valencia.
  • Army de Malaga had 2 unsupported Corps. Spread out in the south, I gave Corps level orders so they could attack in different directions, Cartagena and Villarobledo.
  • The Urgel Corps were independent of all HQs, including Seville. A surprisingly weak unit, I just wanted them to contain the socialists in the North East.

When I hit run this time, I saw very vigorous attacks from the Armies de Madrid and Valencia in the North. Nothing from the Army de Malaga. I have now learned to trust the AI, and assumed that these units in the south were too weak to attack effectively, so left them to it.

The problem with jumping straight into the middle of a war, is you don't know what the relative strengths ae of your units against the opposition. I was to learn fairly soon that my forces were strong to the north of Madrid, and weak to the West. My Urgel Corps was extremely weak, and from the outset came under immense pressure as the Republicans tried to break out of the pocket. Nada in the south. Here we are 3 weeks in around Sep 21 1938.

sp02.png


As you can see, the Republicans are pushing back my forces to the West of Madrid, but are being pushed back all along that northern front. My forces have reached the outskirts of Madrid and Valencia.

I reorganised in the North-East to try to do something about my reverses there. This is where the beauty of the HQ system kicks in (once you've set it up right). I just detached one of the Corps from the Army de Valencia, created a new Army (Army de Barcelona) and attached to it the beleaguered Urgel Corps.

Lets have a look at this North East situation in more detail:

sp03c.png


The Army de Barcelona (highlighted in blue), are given an objective and my now obligatory Axis of Advance to take Tarragona. We can see an initially weak counterattack has commenced, BUT, very interestingly, the 2 divisions in the south have not given up supporting the Army de Valencia's and are contributing to a healthy attack outside Valencia.

So despite clear orders, the AI is overiding them in part, reflecting the needs of battle and sub-commander initiative. Meanwhile, from the blue dots, you can see that it is trying to plug holes well north of Tarragona. And finally, you can see that the new Barcelona Army HQ is trying to position itself roughly in the centre of it's subordinate units. Man, I love this AI. So long as you are in radio range, and have a clear OOB, it works.

Meanwhile in the south.... nada.

Not much to add about the campaign after this, other than it ended very abruptly, when I was not that sure I had it won! A week later I took Madrid and Valencia, and a week after that the Republicans capitulated:

sp05.png


I've now got lots of troops and a shattered nation. I plan to continue and see if I can support our German friends in 1940 and perhaps take back that blasted rock down south ;).
 
Regarding Radio Ranges. Here is what the Wiki says...

Radio Command

Base communication distances for your troops to receive bonuses from the command hierarchy:

* Corps 200 Km

* Army 400 Km

* Army Group 600 Km

* Theater Commander 2000 Km

According to the manual range can be increased through research. There is nothing in the technology files to suggest this though. It might be a bug
.

Now this refers to commander "bonuses" and not necessarily orders/control. So I am still a little at a loss on this. Also, Franco's HQ is a Theater Level HQ, which should reach all the units, so...
 
Again, excellent work! :)

HQ radio range can be increased by merging HQ units with brigades. I experienced merging HQs with militias, and it works great. It's base radio range + half range * number of brigades.
So, an HQ Corps has 200 Km as base range, and it becomes 300 Km if it's merged with 1 brigade, 400 km if merged with 2 brigades, and so on. A theater HQ has 2000 Km as base range, and it becomes 3000 Km if it's merged with 1 brigade, up to 6000 Km if merged with 4 brigades.

That's very useful when dealing with wide territories as in Barbarossa and Africa.
 
Ahh, so the Theater HQ can work if the area is small enough and the units beneath it are in a proper OOB. Is this more effective than using the army groups?

Not quite sure I understand you there. Theater HQ always did work, it is just the top level of the OOB. My earlier comments about defining new theaters is different, and does not always work as it should.
 
I can confirm that new theaters can only be created during peace time. Here's the set up: Japan, October'40. Conquered China, including Yunan. Forced Vichy France to hand over Indochina.
- Original Theaters: Kwantung and Imperial
- Oct.2: Hit define theaters while at peace - generated two new ones: Pusan & Saigon, in addition to the original Kwantung and Imperial.
- Reload save. DoW'ed the allies, then hit define theaters. It kept the two original theaters, Kwantung and Imperial, simply redefining their borders.

Observed problem:
- When I reloaded the game (with four theaters) in the morning, the Kwantung theater had been renamed the Beiping Theater, and all units had been detached.
- I played for a couple of game weeks, made several mistakes and reloaded the same game. This time the Kwantung theater was normal, no name change, and all original units attached.
 
Nationalist Spain's Battle for France

What a strange game. Yet again, I am forced to review my opinion about the AI, though I now feel competent in using it, it still springs a very big surprise...

Getting into the War

But first, I have to get my head around the rest of the game. Historically Nat Spain did not join the Axis for good reason. The nation was an economic mess and ver vulnerable after the SCW. To my mind Paradox have got this spot in the 1938 scenario. I want to involved with GER and help in their attack on France, yet my economy is a mess. I can't keep my armies supplied and stocks quickly dwindle to nothing. In order to keep the massive consumer demand in check, my upgrade and production queues dwindle to nothing. And finally, I have to spend huge levels of Leadership on diplomacy to align with GER and particularly spies to very slowly lower my neutrality in order to get into the fight.

I decide to brazen it out; keep my armies intact; just concentrate on Infantry techs; and don't give back any of those useful ITA and GER expeditionary forces.

Real hardcore military dictatorship this, while pandering to the commoners in order to keep them happy.

Its a very close run thing. Over two years, GER take CZE, POL, DEN and start Fall Gelb, while my neutrality microscopically reduces.

I estimate that I can DOW France in Sep 1940 and I am spot on. GER have taken Paris, but can't achieve a Vichy Event without taking the very stubborn Metz region (I guess).

In preparation, I split my forces into 2: Army Group Norte, consisiting of 3 Armies: Barcelona, Valencia and Pyrenees, who will be tasked with the invasion of France. Army Group Sud (sp?) consists of a Reserve Army covering the key ports and Madrid, and the Malaga Army, who will be tasked with taking Gibraltar.

As stated earlier in this AAR: the absolute, best way to get your AI armies ready for an invasion is to establish your Attack objectives BEHIND the enemy lines PRIOR to the invasion. Prepare or Defend orders INSIDE your lines lead to very slack positioning, and a mess prior to the big day. Set your Attack objectives at least a week before the DOW so your units are ready.

Here's what it looks on the day of the attack (3 Sep 1940)...

sp13fra3sep.png


The attack on France was very easy. Despite my inferior troop quality, I guess I had a 6-1 numerical advantage and the French did not have enough troops to cover the frontier. Progress was still fairly slow as I had the Pyrenees to negotiate, just one mountain division and next to no motorisation. Here we are 13 Sep....

sp16fra13sep.png


Gibraltar was a different situation, where the 3 Brit brigades, very strongly supported by a large Air Group felt strong enough to attack and win territory - 18 Sep...

sp19africa18sep.png


Though I have made some progress in North Africa, the battle for Gibraltar was just not going my way. Note: I've actually lived and worked in Gib for a few months, and can promise you that that little peninsula would be a nightmare to attack from the mainland. The Brits even built tunnels under the Rock so they could reinforce both sides easily.

At this point the AI stepped in. It took the nearest units from different armies from the Army de Norte located in the far north of the country and moved them to Gibraltar!!!! ???? !!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:....

21 Sep:

sp20madness21sep.png


I experienced this in an earlier campaign with the GER 8th Army going on a long route march to a different sector to help out in East Prussia. Part of me says that it is a very clever AI; but a bigger part of me says:

"I'm the freaking commander-in-chief and you can't go changing sectors without my say so, and if I'm making a mistake - so be it".

It would be probably impractical to code, but if the AI could be limited to intervening at no higher than Army level (in other words not supporting units in another Army Group), the player may get some essential control back. Still need to think about this.

Anyway, with ITA now attacking from the East, GER driving well south of Paris and my forces approaching Bordeaux, the Vichy Event fired on Oct 7. Despite our commitment to the cause, SPA and ITA got no territorial gain :(...

sp22surrender07oct.png


OK next time. Lets see about Gib!
 
At this point the AI stepped in. It took the nearest units from different armies from the Army de Norte located in the far north of the country and moved them to Gibraltar!!!! ???? !!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:....

21 Sep:

sp20madness21sep.png


I experienced this in an earlier campaign with the GER 8th Army going on a long route march to a different sector to help out in East Prussia. Part of me says that it is a very clever AI; but a bigger part of me says:

"I'm the freaking commander-in-chief and you can't go changing sectors without my say so, and if I'm making a mistake - so be it".

It would be probably impractical to code, but if the AI could be limited to intervening at no higher than Army level (in other words not supporting units in another Army Group), the player may get some essential control back. Still need to think about this.

Interesting. So, you found AI controlled units going south, despite your orders. Did you read my old AAR (patch 1.2) about units disobeying orders because of Theater interferences? Here, it becomes clear it can happen when 1 theater = 2 different fronts. AI does't uderstand those fronts are different. AI just think it must face that situation at south for attacking north better. Could you try your France/Gibiltair scenario, but with all units DETACHED from theater? It'd be really interesting to see if units behavior becomes different.
 
Interesting. So, you found AI controlled units going south, despite your orders. Did you read my old AAR (patch 1.2) about units disobeying orders because of Theater interferences? Here, it becomes clear it can happen when 1 theater = 2 different fronts. AI does't uderstand those fronts are different. AI just think it must face that situation at south for attacking north better. Could you try your France/Gibiltair scenario, but with all units DETACHED from theater? It'd be really interesting to see if units behavior becomes different.

I've noticed something similar as well - my guess is the AI has an objective, and suddenly sees, in this case Gib, as a real threat to that objective so wanders off to address the problem - in my case my armies pushing into German held arctic norway suddenly became obsessed with a couple of isolated (& unoccupied) German owned provinces in Central Finland.

There must be something in its perception of threat to objectives that makes it very vulnerable to apparent threats to its rear. The problem is that this sometimes would be a wise response - say if a naval landing occured behind the front, then that landing, unless stomped on, would indeed be a threat to whatever objectives the AI has.
 
HQ radio range can be increased by merging HQ units with brigades. I experienced merging HQs with militias, and it works great. It's base radio range + half range * number of brigades.
So, an HQ Corps has 200 Km as base range, and it becomes 300 Km if it's merged with 1 brigade, 400 km if merged with 2 brigades, and so on. A theater HQ has 2000 Km as base range, and it becomes 3000 Km if it's merged with 1 brigade, up to 6000 Km if merged with 4 brigades.

That's very useful when dealing with wide territories as in Barbarossa and Africa.
Thanks for this post. I had overlooked this until I found another thread today recommending the same thing. I tried this out with one of my army group HQs; 2 MP brigades merged in with the "r" key (reorganize) doubled the range - The units under the HQ's command were just stalled until I gave the HQ the 2 brigades, then they as soon as they were merged the units down the chain executed their attack orders - just like someone threw a switch on.
 
Interesting. So, you found AI controlled units going south, despite your orders. Did you read my old AAR (patch 1.2) about units disobeying orders because of Theater interferences? Here, it becomes clear it can happen when 1 theater = 2 different fronts. AI does't uderstand those fronts are different. AI just think it must face that situation at south for attacking north better. Could you try your France/Gibiltair scenario, but with all units DETACHED from theater? It'd be really interesting to see if units behavior becomes different.

Your analysis would seem to be bang on! I ran through from a save game starting with my DOW on FRA, detached my 2 Army Groups from Theater HQ, and did not see a repeat of troops redeploying to the south.

So... the moral is that if you have two fronts in the same theater and you don't want the AI to interfere between them, then it may be best to detach from the Theater HQ. I guess the negative is that your troops don't benefit from that General's bonuses. I stick this in my happiness list.

Cheers
 
Gibraltar

Nothing new to note really with this campaign, so I will make it brief.

The HOI3 invasion AI has been heavily criticised in the forums, but in terms of defending Gibraltar, the UK AI was very active. During the battle for France, I made no headway into Gibraltar, despite having 1 Army Group encamped outside it. It was only defended by 3 brigades, and the AI showed no desire to attack. For laughs, I manually attacked with everything I had, and couldn't get above 15% on the attack ratio :eek:.

After the fall of France, when the AI was conducting a counterattack, I discovered this...

sp24gib.png


Over the course of the next few months, the Brits would slip no less than 37 brigades onto the Rock, and a couple of Marine Divisions into Tangiers (my fault - I left it wide open).

No chance then. I had hit a superstack.

Further evidence of the Theater AI taking things into it's own hands, a strategic redeployment of a whole army this time!

sp25stratredeployment.png


OK, I'm done for Xmas. Happy to discuss further, but enough HOI3 for the time being.
 
You could keep them in the theater HQ and assign orders just to the Army Group HQs to get the bonus yeah?

I've been playing GER a while now and playing with the AI. My experiance is:

Theater HQ covers multiple fronts, keypoints and basically everything in that theater, which can drain units from your main force. Army Group HQs and under covers 1 front (Army Group HQ would cover just france borders and not any hostile border like the Theater HQ would).

I tend to use the theater HQ to command with during the beginning of the war. When I've grown big and nasty I pull out my attack Army groups from the Theater HQ, leaving only what I want as defence for that theater. Then re-deploy the attack Army Groups close to the new target country border.

This works okish because I can just set theater on defend without any objective and it tends to everything as long as it has some transports and lesser units (garrisons and so on).

The attack Army HQs do their job ok, but I think it is a little hard to distinguish where their borders are after a while and I've noticed they do mix with eachother. This is very much so vs russland and a long front. For example my Northern Army Group has units all the way south with my Southern Army Group. This is a little annoying, but I guess it is because it is the same front. If this could be fixed I'd be really happy :)

Great AAR. Thanks.
 
This is very interesting and enlightening. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread for your insights. I found the insight into the HQ Radio contact and AI effectiveness especially interesting. I would like to find out more about the necessity of using the Axis of Advance option for AI control. What makes it so essential?
 
I've found it helps to avoid some of the problems mentioned by Wardor above - it not only assists in getting the AI moving forward where you, not it, wishes to operate, but it does minimise intermingling between different AI commands - I tend to use the army level and that way the 3-5 corps tend to keep together.
 
You could keep them in the theater HQ and assign orders just to the Army Group HQs to get the bonus yeah?

Unfortunately not. I usually define orders at the Army or Army Group level, just by having the Theater HQ in the hierarchy seem to allow it to make its own decisions.

I tend to use the theater HQ to command with during the beginning of the war. When I've grown big and nasty I pull out my attack Army groups from the Theater HQ, leaving only what I want as defence for that theater. Then re-deploy the attack Army Groups close to the new target country border.

This works okish because I can just set theater on defend without any objective and it tends to everything as long as it has some transports and lesser units (garrisons and so on).

Agreed.

The attack Army HQs do their job ok, but I think it is a little hard to distinguish where their borders are after a while and I've noticed they do mix with eachother. This is very much so vs russland and a long front. For example my Northern Army Group has units all the way south with my Southern Army Group. This is a little annoying, but I guess it is because it is the same front. If this could be fixed I'd be really happy :)

This is very interesting and enlightening. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread for your insights. I found the insight into the HQ Radio contact and AI effectiveness especially interesting. I would like to find out more about the necessity of using the Axis of Advance option for AI control. What makes it so essential?

Yes, in a war environment, there is a bit of intermingling (happened for real of course). I find the combination of Attack objectives BEHIND enemy lines coupled with an Axis of Advance tends to minimise this to reasonable levels.

I've found it helps to avoid some of the problems mentioned by Wardor above - it not only assists in getting the AI moving forward where you, not it, wishes to operate, but it does minimise intermingling between different AI commands - I tend to use the army level and that way the 3-5 corps tend to keep together.

Agreed - Army level HQ objectives are the sweet spot for me. Army Group if there is no war. Corps or Division for exceptions like see and airbourne invasions.
 
That's my old AAR about Theater interferences when operating at lower HQ levels (mainly, AG level).

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435569

It was run with 1.2 patch, so maybe something changed, but it looks like Theater still interferes with player stances and objectives with 1.3 too. I guess a similar test series could be run, mainly to find best defensive configurations (defending a border, defending VP provinces, defending vs. partisans).

Anyway, I think main AI problem with 1.3 is that military AI tends to become sleepy after few years. I was running a 1936 campaign and I'm at december 1942 now. Units don't attack anymore towards objectives in undefended provinces. They are fully supplied, at full strenght, and there's no reason of that stalemate. Troops just sit on undefended enemy border...
 
hey, at least the AI ( I assume HQ level) recognizes death stacks and takes 'appropriate' action and trys its hardest to eliminate them before they become too dangerous. continue on if you may, I am interested in seeing further developments in Africa, wait till you hit the French...
The AI will probably explode.:rofl: