Have naval invasions become more difficult compared to a year or two ago?

[CrespoBatistuta]

I've been replaying Communist Mexico, and previously I was comfortably able to defeat Venezuela with only naval invasions consisting of marines and infantry units. This strategy used to work with the stock unit templates, but in my recent playthroughs, stronger units with artillery and support engineers struggle at capturing even one port.

Before I consider changing my strategy, I'd appreciate any tips that might improve my chances.

 

[Findell_HOI]

10w need a lot divs which means you will be overstacking your general fast

10W special forces is fine. 10w infatnry is dumb unless you are using them for port garrisons.

20w miniuum for attacking infantry in low supply areas.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

10W special forces is fine. 10w infatnry is dumb unless you are using them for port garrisons.

20w miniuum for attacking infantry in low supply areas.

10w special forces means you need a lot of divisions to fill the combat width, a 40/42w doesn't need as many
10w also means you will overstack your grinded general (in japans case for example) and you will have to use a worse general

 

[Cavalry]

10W special forces is fine. 10w infatnry is dumb unless you are using them for port garrisons.

20w miniuum for attacking infantry in low supply areas.

Remember support fire is big when you use 10w so the support should be a little difference: support art, support rocket art, tank recon, support AA. The last is Eng if use in naval or river invasion or forest defend.

Support rocket art help 10w win over 20w in other doctrine. In SF-R they will win, rockert art or not but of course rush for rocket art!
And that for 10w, 8w get another 20% more firepower.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

Remember support fire is big when you use 10w so the support should be a little difference: support art, support rocket art, tank recon, support AA. The last is Eng if use in naval or river invasion or forest defend.

Support rocket art help 10w win over 20w in other doctrine. In SF-R they will win, rockert art or not but of course rush for rocket art!

GBP beats SF by a landslide in naval invasion due to planning bonus, no other doctrine gets planning on naval invasions

 

[Findell_HOI]

10w special forces means you need a lot of divisions to fill the combat width, a 40/42w doesn't need as many
10w also means you will overstack your grinded general (in japans case for example) and you will have to use a worse general

No you use 10w special forces on purpose because they aren't what is doing the main damage the airplanes are. CAS/Tacticals plus a whole bunch marines.

I cant even imagine running out of general space i have no idea what you are doing wrong if you are running out of general space.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

No you use 10w special forces on purpose because they aren't what is doing the main damage the airplanes are. CAS/Tacticals plus a whole bunch marines.

I cant even imagine running out of general space i have no idea what you are doing wrong if you are running out of general space.

CAS doesn't reach every island in the pacific though does it?
You aren't listening at all, by using 10w divisions i have less space on GOOD generals with great stats i grinded in spain/china, i am forced to use worse generals

 

[Findell_HOI]

CAS doesn't reach every island in the pacific though does it?
You aren't listening at all, by using 10w divisions i have less space on GOOD generals with great stats i grinded in spain/china, i am forced to use worse generals

The only island that is diffcult to have planes for is Hawaii. Everything else you can have land based planes reach if you do the island hopping correctly.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

The only island that is diffcult to have planes for is Hawaii. Everything else you can have land based planes reach if you do the island hopping correctly.

read what what alexander said on the previous pages lmao

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[Alexander 'The Grape']

But 40w pure marine is probably wrong. Need some line artillery in that.

Naval Invasions that are actually seriously contested are force attack v last stand, or force attack v force attack.

Line artillery is a bad idea for this, as they add no HP to a division.

 

[CrespoBatistuta]

Some interesting points all around, I appreciate all the contributions to this thread.

For the sake of feedback, I'll try using grand battleplan as I usually pick superior firepower or mobile warfare with a Mexico playthrough.

I'll add that I rush Central and South America such that I'm attacking Peru by the time Germany is declaring war on Poland. The logic here is to avoid Peru or Venezuela joining either Germany or Japan's faction. This means I can't rely on 1940s tech. Although Mexico starts with one capital ship and tactical bombers, so a naval invasion does have support.

As for my marines, Mexico's default template is 8w marines which I buff out to 10w pure marines with support artillery and engineers. My infantry units are 21w with infantry and one unit of line artillery plus support artillery and engineers.

I will admit this playthrough has its constraints. Tech research first and limitations on both IC and population, meaning big divisions are not viable. It might be a skill issue, but I'm open to all ideas.

 

[GrandVezir]

You aren't listening at all, by using 10w divisions i have less space on GOOD generals with great stats i grinded in spain/china, i am forced to use worse generals

OP is playing Mexico, single player. How much general grinding in Spain and China are we expecting from that situation?

Also, if my quick math is accurate, 24 40w special forces divisions requires 960 sf battalions. That, in turn, requires something more than 900 40w divisions (or its equivalent in differently-sized divisions) with the usual 5% special forces cap.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

OP is playing Mexico, single player. How much general grinding in Spain and China are we expecting from that situation?

Also, if my quick math is accurate, 24 40w special forces divisions requires 960 sf battalions. That, in turn, requires something more than 900 40w divisions (or its equivalent in differently-sized divisions) with the usual 5% special forces cap.

My comments were aimed towards the people saying stuff about 10w marines, most (keyword most) countries that use a lot of marines can grind generals in spain/china

 

[Cavalry]

As for my marines, Mexico's default template is 8w marines which I buff out to 10w pure marines with support artillery and engineers. My infantry units are 21w with infantry and one unit of line artillery plus support artillery and engineers.

Light tank recon is great for infantry assault and cheap. And no need to get 10w from 8w. That's just reduce firepower density. You can combine small marine and big infantry divisions in one battle fine.

 

[Alexander 'The Grape']

I'll add that I rush Central and South America such that I'm attacking Peru by the time Germany is declaring war on Poland. The logic here is to avoid Peru or Venezuela joining either Germany or Japan's faction. This means I can't rely on 1940s tech. Although Mexico starts with one capital ship and tactical bombers, so a naval invasion does have support.

I would say then the best things to improve your naval invasion without altering the template too much would be:

- Get Tip of the spear
- Get planning on a land border with an army attack order
- Assign to naval invasion order when full planning
- Click "Force Attack" when in combat

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Low width means that with random damage spread you can lose a div once your strength gets low and thus damage. High width will keep max stats all the way to 0 strength.

this isn't a thing in sp. it theoretically could happen the same way the ai could theoretically micro well.

40w doesn't carry "max" damage the whole time either. for one, you still take a little damage. also, planning bonus decays. non-trivially, if you're fighting vs last stand and the invasion is some distance.

What's more, planning doesn't just buff attacks - it buffs breakthrough as well, massively, which you absolutely need especially since you often can't build an airforce in singleplayer.

thousands of soft attacks more than suffices, there's no "absolute need" about this. i'm not convinced the casualty differential between 10w and 40w vs ai when used offensively even reaches the 1000s. total losses might due to fighting elsewhere on the line. but the marginal difference of using one vs the other to open lines or take ports? usually not. i grade this as the same level of "need" as "field hospitals to conserve manpower".

you're right that gbp should be significantly ahead until sf gets integrated support though. ymmv on that based on nation.

CAS/TAC is serious good. If you play a minor and toy with naval invasion then no reason not to have some CAS/TAC. They give +35% land combat bonus too.

even ai will put up superiority in naval invasions where you actually have to try. heck, ai is more likely to have air superiority than it is to competently garrison the port, as opposed to doing inane crap like leaving 1 guy on the port and making this entire discussion moot because you can land on either side of it with literally any random division design that isn't arty only and punt it off the port in 3 seconds. this is something freaking uk allows in many runs. but they'll still interrupt and shoot down your cas, and if you're a trash can minor with 3-10 mils before you go to war that cas isn't realistic if you want your divisions to work.

Also, if my quick math is accurate, 24 40w special forces divisions requires 960 sf battalions. That, in turn, requires something more than 900 40w divisions (or its equivalent in differently-sized divisions) with the usual 5% special forces cap.

you can still cheese way over sf cap if you want using template swapping, but it's more effort than it's worth as it's hard to find sp situations where that matters and mp frowns on such things.