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Good Game, but not a grand strategy.

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The issue with OPs argument that he is basing it all off of the assumption that Grand Strategy must be intrinsically complicated, not streamlined, and a mess of mechanics that must make everything step of the way unnecessarily difficult.

That is an incorrect assumption.
 
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Evan05 said:
The issue with OPs argument that he is basing it all off of the assumption that Grand Strategy must be intrinsically complicated, not streamlined, and a mess of mechanics that must make everything step of the way unnecessarily difficult.

That is an incorrect assumption.
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In fairness some parts of HoI4 are a streamlined mess of mechanics.
 
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Evan05 said:
The issue with OPs argument that he is basing it all off of the assumption that Grand Strategy must be intrinsically complicated, not streamlined, and a mess of mechanics that must make everything step of the way unnecessarily difficult.

That is an incorrect assumption.
Click to expand...

You are confusing complicated with control.

There is significantly less control and immersion in this game than the previous HOI games.
 
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Toddd240 said:
When the OP writes arcade he means simplified.......for me this game is a step above axis and allies. The tech tree is overly simplified. The combat is basically EUIV with airplanes.
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There are no airplanes in HOI4, they are abstracted that's why they are teleported
 
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Cardus said:
There are no airplanes in HOI4, they are abstracted that's why they are teleported
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ok it's EUIV with airpower.......I see the little airplane sprites so I know something is there. NATO counters are a different story.....
 
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Pasta_Man said:
In fairness some parts of HoI4 are a streamlined mess of mechanics.
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The tech system is too simple, and current relations of resources and production is fucked.

That doesn't make HOI4 a non-Grand Strategy game.

Toddd240 said:
You are confusing complicated with control.

There is significantly less control and immersion in this game than the previous HOI games.
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Having your game mechanics be so needlessly complicated that it interferes with you making important choices kinda hurts control. You also don't need immersion for a grand strategy game. It nice, but necessary.
 
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not sure what you're all complaining about. I've played CK2 and EUIV and loved them - never played HOI, however, I've started up this game and I love it. Maybe I'm not used to the 'harder' game you all speak of.

Simple solution though - you want to play a game like HOI3? Then carry on playing it.
 
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Toddd240 said:
ok it's EUIV with airpower.......I see the little airplane sprites so I know something is there. NATO counters are a different story.....
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Just nice artwork, nothing more nothing less.

SenseiTJ2 said:
not sure what you're all complaining about. I've played CK2 and EUIV and loved them - never played HOI, however, I've started up this game and I love it. Maybe I'm not used to the 'harder' game you all speak of.

Simple solution though - you want to play a game like HOI3? Then carry on playing it.
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You are perfectly right. HOI4 has been designed for players like you (which I believe is the majority). As I said somewhere else in a matter of taste/opinion there is no wrong opinion. The only point I raised a couple of times to Paradox was to license the HOI3 engine and give the possibility to the players who are different from you (and from the majority) to get a plausible, immersive, historical game.
 
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The thing is that those advanced and 'boring' features like micro-management etc. made HoI series so highly rated and critically acclaimed. I think most people who defend this game are the ones who didn't really get into earlier HoI/ DH. In this game everything is served up on the plate and as many already mentioned - the game isn't bad but it's simply directed towards different target-audience.
 
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KimSand said:
They have made a Hasbro Game this time, with little to no appeal to a hardcore Strategy Gamer like myself, and it is a disappointment.
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Fully agree on this though I compared this to "Risk"... but the general idea is here.
 
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Kinkness said:
Ignorance is bliss. I don't expect many people to understand their flaws and illusions. It's one of humanities great strengths, and weaknesses.
Take you for example. I'm sure you've not taken an ounce of anything said on the counter argument at all, or rationally really thought about it. How can I expect much when people like you exist? Especially when you're so hard headed as to come back to the thread days later to make a post like this without Im sure even reading any other posts to see if maybe someone said something to change your mind? of course they didn't, because you've already percieved you are right 100% and therefore don't listen.

Am I then surprised most people will stay ignorant? Not at all.
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HOI4 IS a grand strategy game. There's nothing to argue with there. It would be like trying to argue with someone who insists that blue is red. It's not. It's blue. I don't have to prove that it's not red to someone who persists in calling it red.

I get you're angry and/or frustrated with the direction that Paradox have chosen to take with this game. There are design decisions that have made me raise an eyebrow but I'm not angry about them and I don't worry about them. But your thread is titled, 'Good game, but not a Grand strategy'. It IS grand strategy. It's just a less complex grand strategy game than HOI3.
 
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OK I can see this thread has got out of hand, going back to review. Will be reopened later
 
Actually I will just leave it closed since it has descended into flame

As for the claim of the OP I did a little digging and all I could come up with was basically the wiki which HOI4 meets the criteria for.

A grand strategy wargame is a wargame that places focus on grand strategy: military strategy at the level of movement and use of an entire nation state or empire's resources.
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hmmm the military units are there and allowed to be moved
oh and there are resources for each nation to be used

For the person that suggested Risk met the above criteria, Risk has no resources to manage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_strategy_wargame

HOI4 already made this list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Grand_strategy_video_games
 
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