German Unification

[DaPacemDomine]

Obviously there are a great many further options to explore where this is concerned, but one in particular concerns me.

I haven't the game yet, but according to Mork, there is no Austrian option for Unification. IMHO, there should be one, however remote and penalty-laden. Prior to the Austrian-Prussian War, there was every opportunity and indeed expectation that if Germany was to be unified, Austria would be the power to do it. I would love to see some events to reflect this, if anyone feels like taking it on.

 

[Dunderdon]

Would austria really have united germany as a nation? or would they have prefered lots of small nations that they could control very easily and that would follow them in wars?

 

[DaPacemDomine]

Pragmatically, they would have, and for three quarters of a century DID prevent unification at all costs. BUT, there was a tremendous amount of pressure from the other German states for Austria to assume a new Imperial throne. Prussia outright refused the offer to unify Germany beneath its banner in the Diet of Frankfurt of 1848/49. Austrian failure at German unification was more due to its own intransigence and refusal to accept the responsibility than anything else. So yes, I think unification was entirely possible under an Austrian agenda, even were it not probable. Such a unification would have meant, likely, statehood and independence for Hungary, and severe diplomatic discontent from British and French circles, but that doesn't outweigh the fact that it could well have happened had either Ferdinand (or likely Metternich in his stead), or later Francis Joseph relented. The same stubborness is what kept Prussia from doing the same for so many years.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

Austria unifying Germany would have really messed up the balance of power in Europe, so it should definitaley be difficult to do and probably cause a major conflict. After all, when Austria tried to increase their authority in the Holy Roman Empire it provoked the 30 years war...

 

[DaPacemDomine]

Originally posted by Chengar Qordath
Austria unifying Germany would have really messed up the balance of power in Europe, so it should definitaley be difficult to do and probably cause a major conflict. After all, when Austria tried to increase their authority in the Holy Roman Empire it provoked the 30 years war...

No more of an 'upset' than Prussia. It took them a war to finally unify Germany, after all. Two, if you count both the Franco-Prussian and Austro-Prussian Wars.

 

[unmerged(21824)]

Three if you count the one with norway that led to the Seven Weeks War.

Edit: Norway? I meant Denmark.

 

[DaPacemDomine]

V.I.P. German Unification

Intricacies of and alternatives for the unification of Germany.

 

[Generalisimo]

why?

 

[DaPacemDomine]

Why? Why not? It's in the organisation thread as a needed facet for the project. And as I understand it, not having the game yet, of course, the only option for Germany's unification as it stands now is under Prussia. Something as tenuous as the creation of the unified German state demands a bit more than that, methinks.

 

[Guinnessmonkey]

Originally posted by DaPacemDomine
Why? Why not? It's in the organisation thread as a needed facet for the project. And as I understand it, not having the game yet, of course, the only option for Germany's unification as it stands now is under Prussia. Something as tenuous as the creation of the unified German state demands a bit more than that, methinks.

Valid point, maybe, but I'd rather people hold off on proposing events (and certainly starting threads) and such until they've played the game...

I'm seeing lots of people "suggesting" events that are already in the game.... Wait and see, folks.

 

[Guinnessmonkey]

No need to have two threads on the same topic opened within a day of each other...

Merged.

 

[ptan54]

I fully support this idea.

Also, according to the other posts, it seems the North German Confederation will be a satellite state of Germany........only to be followed with the exciting event of..........nothing.

There should definitely be an annexation event down the line.

There should also be a possibility of a Southern German Confederation, Bavaria, Wurttemburg, and Baden.

Lastly - the ultimate in any German unification campaign - GrossDeutschland, either as Austria or Germany, every single German state united under one flag. This could happen as an event in 1866 war - after Prussia or Austria gets to a certain warscore, let them choose to accept a minor victory/defeat with no territorial loss, or complete dismantling of the other, with substantial penalties.

Specifically, I am thinking of the following scenario.

http://www.scifiimperium.com/what_if_bismarck_created_grossde.htm

 

[Rendon]

#########################################################################
# Popular Unification of Germany
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 4612
random = no
country = PRU

trigger = {
NOT = { constitution = { country = ANH type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = AUS type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = BAD type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = BAY type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = BRA type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = BRE type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = COB type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = FRM type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = FRM type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = HAM type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = HAN type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = HED type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = HEK type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = HLS type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = LIP type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = LUB type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = MEC type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = MEI type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = NAS type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = NGF type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = SGF type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = OLD type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = PRU type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = SAX type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = WEI type = monarchy } }
NOT = { constitution = { country = WUR type = monarchy } }
}

name = "EVT_1509_NAME"
desc = "EVT_1509_DESC"
style = 0

date = { day = 15 month = january year = 1836 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1851 }

action_a = {
name = "ACCEPT" # Accept
command = { type = constitution which = democracy }
command = { type = executive_designation which = parliamentarism }
command = { type = party_system which = multi_party }
command = { type = national_value which = equality }
command = { type = set_ruling_party which = 4600 }
command = { type = country which = GER }
}
}
#########################################################################
# Popular Unification of Germany
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 1509
random = no
country = AUS

trigger = {
event = 4612
exists = HUN
exists = GER
NOT = { war = { country = GER country = AUS } }
}

name = "EVT_1509_NAME"
desc = "EVT_1509_DESC"
style = 0

date = { day = 4 month = january year = 1836 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 30 month = april year = 1852 }

action_a = {
name = "ACCEPT_END" # Accept [Inherited by GER]
command = { type = surrender which = GER }
}
action_b = {
name = "REFUSE" # Refuse
command = { }
}
}

Well theres a change of this happening atleast. Although it looks pretty unlikely.

 

[ptan54]

So Hungary has to be independent for a true GrossDeutschland to appear?

0.000000000000000000001% chance of happening.....:rofl:

 

[jdrou]

Originally posted by ptan54
So Hungary has to be independent for a true GrossDeutschland to appear?

0.000000000000000000001% chance of happening.....:rofl:

Yes, I would probably instead have the event MAKE Hungary independent if Austria chooses to join GD.

 

[ptan54]

Austria would never JOIN GrossDeutschland though - not without the Habsburgs severely beaten or removed.

This could only happen if Prussian armies enter Vienna and Budapest in the war - then if nationalist uprisings start in the wake of central authority collapse, perhaps German nationalists in Austria will want to join Germany.

I think this should be an event - occupy Budapest, Prussia can choose to liberate Hungary into a separate state. Croatia and slavic lands follow. Then Prussian troops enter Vienna. Bohemia, Austria is annexed into Greater Germany. The Habsburgs are deposed.