Extra Diplo Slots need to be removed from a number of Idea sets.

[Aussiehawker]

The new Estate interactions, Strong Duchies adds 2 extra Diplo slots, with a fairly easy enabling condition, and no major penalty in taking. By the time you would want to dump it for absolutism, you likely would have picked up a Diplo group with extra slots.

This means that many nations, that have diplo slots in their ideas, can have a ridiculous number of diplo slots, in the very early game, without even having to pick diplomatic or influence ideas. Which devalues the value of these ideas, and can lead to massive vassal swarms or alliance nets.

For example, Timurids, should really start with Strong Duchies enabled automatically (or have their own unique version like France), and have their tradition changed from

+1 Diplomatic relation
+1 Land leader shock

Maybe keep the Land leader shock and add either, a diplo rep if something diplomatic is to be kept. Or maybe just a cavalry idea, like cavalry combat ability.

 

[makaramus]

I think all that "strong duchies" is doing is giving you 2 free vassals am I wrong? Also its consuming slot of state priviladges from nobility wich is most important one

 

[Aussiehawker]

I think all that "strong duchies" is doing is giving you 2 free vassals am I wrong? Also its consuming slot of state priviladges from nobility wich is most important one

No, the diplo slots can be used on anybody. You can even keep the strong duchies, while holding no vassals (edit - maybe not). I vassalised one of the required targets in the bishopric mission that Austria has, fulfilled the quest, took the strong duchies, and dumped the vassal, since I had no interest in annexing them.

And trade-offs should exist. 2 Diplo slots AND −10% Liberty desire in subjects, is a powerful estate privilege, it doesn't cost any crown land, and it improves loyalty.

 

[LukasYork]

Strong duchies are automatically removed if you have no vassals. You need to have at least 1 vassal or march for it to stay active. PUs do not count.

 

[Aussiehawker]

I'm fairly sure it wasn't, when I was playing as Austria, but maybe I didn't notice. And it isn't mentioned in the description when I used it. Maybe it was one of the issues patched. But that does not detract from my point. The sheer number of Diplo slots possible, allow for a lot of vassals AND alliances, even without specifically investing in their use, through ideas.

 

[makaramus]

I'm fairly sure it wasn't, when I was playing as Austria, but maybe I didn't notice. And it isn't mentioned in the description when I used it. Maybe it was one of the issues patched. But that does not detract from my point. The sheer number of Diplo slots possible, allow for a lot of vassals AND alliances, even without specifically investing in their use, through ideas.

considering new state rule applied to game vassals are actually more required to do HARD CORE conquests. Considering this this is very required priviladge to have for empires that rapidly expending.

people are allready angry that their goverment capacity makes it harder to conquer land even without stating anything. This atleast helps it.
(Also considering literally everyone can pick it thats fine)

 

[Reman]

The devs have long wanted to make vassals more worthwhile. Adding more diplo slots is an important step of that process. If I only have 4 diplo slots, I'll realistically want to use 2-3 of those on alliances for power/AE concerns, which leaves only 1-2 slots for vassals. When I have 8 diplo slots, I can use 3-4 on alliances and have the remaining 4-5 to use on vassals. This is to say nothing of if slots are needed for utility, e.g. to secure the Hanbali bonus for muslims, or for getting military access (which doesn't cost the AI a slot by the way).

Making vassals useful is especially important early on. When governing capacity is low, expanding through subjects is often the only realistic way to grow without significantly handicapping yourself.

 

[Battlex]

The new Estate interactions, Strong Duchies adds 2 extra Diplo slots, with a fairly easy enabling condition, and no major penalty in taking. By the time you would want to dump it for absolutism, you likely would have picked up a Diplo group with extra slots.

This means that many nations, that have diplo slots in their ideas, can have a ridiculous number of diplo slots, in the very early game, without even having to pick diplomatic or influence ideas. Which devalues the value of these ideas, and can lead to massive vassal swarms or alliance nets.

For example, Timurids, should really start with Strong Duchies enabled automatically (or have their own unique version like France), and have their tradition changed from



Maybe keep the Land leader shock and add either, a diplo rep if something diplomatic is to be kept. Or maybe just a cavalry idea, like cavalry combat ability.

The next patch is gonna focus on tall vassal play so you'll have to suck it up sadly.

 

[klingonadmiral]

Strong duchies are automatically removed if you have no vassals. You need to have at least 1 vassal or march for it to stay active. PUs do not count.

You should always have at least one vassal around.

The devs have long wanted to make vassals more worthwhile. Adding more diplo slots is an important step of that process.

Funny considering that vassals have been one of the strongest mechanics in the game since 1.0 - sure, not the way paradox intended but potent still.

And I honestly thik the biggest buff to vassal play would be the overlords name stretching over them, Vicky 2 style.

Also i wonder if a small number of well maintained vassals would be a better approach than giving players to opportunity to get more of them. for that only boosts the well-known cycle of feeding and annexing.

 

[Talamare]

And I honestly thik the biggest buff to vassal play would be the overlords name stretching over them, Vicky 2 style.

CK-esque?

I honestly agree tho
Even if the name stretch only applied when zoomed out and had ZERO mechanical benefits...
I would be more into Vassals if it did this...

 

[Battlex]

CK-esque?

I honestly agree tho
Even if the name stretch only applied when zoomed out and had ZERO mechanical benefits...
I would be more into Vassals if it did this...

It gives the name but not the colour, so your Grob Germaniums name stretches from Paris to Moscow but Ukraine is yellow not grey

You should always have at least one vassal around.



Funny considering that vassals have been one of the strongest mechanics in the game since 1.0 - sure, not the way paradox intended but potent still.

And I honestly thik the biggest buff to vassal play would be the overlords name stretching over them, Vicky 2 style.

Also i wonder if a small number of well maintained vassals would be a better approach than giving players to opportunity to get more of them. for that only boosts the well-known cycle of feeding and annexing.

How? You couldn't direct them until art of war to specific provinces, and that dlc also gave them more forms of direction
Vassal income being a constant means them constantly drilling troops isn't an issue, and a benefit to help beat someone if same mil tech when they reinforce. Which is cradle of civilisation

 

[klingonadmiral]

How? You couldn't direct them until art of war to specific provinces, and that dlc also gave them more forms of direction

Vassals allow you to take core land with DIP instead of ADM. Which why I said "not the way Paradox intended" - vassals weren't something you kept around, but a way to optimize your gain of directly controlled land. Which is something they still excell at today.

 

[LSF]

Strong duchies are automatically removed if you have no vassals. You need to have at least 1 vassal or march for it to stay active. PUs do not count.

For keeping the strong duchies you need at least one vassal with capital in France.

It is too strong IMHO.

 

[EarlKonrad]

It gives the name but not the colour, so your Grob Germaniums name stretches from Paris to Moscow but Ukraine is yellow not grey

How? You couldn't direct them until art of war to specific provinces, and that dlc also gave them more forms of direction
Vassal income being a constant means them constantly drilling troops isn't an issue, and a benefit to help beat someone if same mil tech when they reinforce. Which is cradle of civilisation

Client Estates can be formed everywhere and given a lot of land (they always take administrative and humanism right away), increasing by quite a bit how much you can take each war and saving on ADM by later annexing them with DIP.

 

[Republic of Mercury]

For keeping the strong duchies you need at least one vassal with capital in France.

It is too strong IMHO.

The location of your vassal's capital is irrelevant, you just have to have at least one.

 

[Battlex]

For keeping the strong duchies you need at least one vassal with capital in France.

It is too strong IMHO.

To keep "French strong duchies" you need them to have a capital in the French region? Can you prove that please because I thought France didn't have the option of regular strong duchies so once they annex all French vassals, as they're meant to, they wouldn't be allowed the extra 2 diplo slots every other non English monarchy is this patch

 

[Natz]

They should just nerf strong duchies, 2 diplo relations and -10 liberty desire for basically free until absolutism is stupid overpowered.

 

[LSF]

In my 1st run with France in 1.30.2 I annexed all my french vassals and kept some marches in other places. I lost the Strong Duchies.

 

[Less2]

In my 1st run with France in 1.30.2 I annexed all my french vassals and kept some marches in other places. I lost the Strong Duchies.

Marches/Vassals should work. PUs won't. It's actually kind of annoying for nations like Castile/Aragon and Austria who will get lots of PUs early but also need 2 vassals to enact the privilege.