Equipment conversion techs

[afb]

Do the two equipment conversion techs actually do anything in the current version of the game? I ran a test where I converted some of Germany's initial Panzer I tanks to SPART, and in one game I cheated to get the conversion techs while in another I didn't. After running a few months of production, I had converted the exact same amount.

I know that equipment conversion has some exploit issues, but having techs in the game that don't actually do anything seems worse. But maybe I am just missing something?

 

[GrandVezir]

After running a few months of production, I had converted the exact same amount.

By any chance, was that amount the amount Germany starts the game with?

 

[afb]

By any chance, was that amount the amount Germany starts the game with?

No, they start with hundreds and I didn't run it that long.

I made sure to delete the three tank divisions using the equipment on Jan 1st so they showed up in the pool and were available to convert.

 

[Corpse Fool]

I tried testing this. I started a new game as germany, turned the AI off, deleting all their divisions, cancelled every production line, gave myself some XP, made a new tank design based off the pz1 chassis, and set 1 production line of 1 factory on the new vehicle, turning on conversion.
Without the conversion techs, they made 5 completely conversions by feb1
With the conversion techs, they made 6.

The reported conversion cost without the techs, was 4.1 IC (I just changed from the machinegun, to the close support gun). With the techs, this is reduced to 3.3, a reduction of 0.8 IC. This follows with the suggestion that each tech is a flat -40% off what is to be considered the 'hull tax' for conversions, which defaults to 90%. The techs would reduce this to 50%, and 10%. With the 'hull' of the pz1 being the basic light tank hull, which has an Ic cost of 1.25. 80% of that would normally be 1 IC, instead of the 0.8 Ic we actually see in the game, but that is made up for by the ribeted (That was a typo, but I thought it was funny so I left it) armour, which applies an external (to the previous calculation, at least) multiplier of 0.8, and we arrive at the final cost reduction of 0.8.

Of the remaining 3.3 Ic cost, 0.1 is what remains of the hull tax, while the 3.2 is the conversion cost of 4.0 IC for converting the HMG into a CSG, with the 20% reduction.

 

[afb]

I tried testing this. I started a new game as germany, turned the AI off, deleting all their divisions, cancelled every production line, gave myself some XP, made a new tank design based off the pz1 chassis, and set 1 production line of 1 factory on the new vehicle, turning on conversion.
Without the conversion techs, they made 5 completely conversions by feb1
With the conversion techs, they made 6.

The reported conversion cost without the techs, was 4.1 IC (I just changed from the machinegun, to the close support gun). With the techs, this is reduced to 3.3, a reduction of 0.8 IC. This follows with the suggestion that each tech is a flat -40% off what is to be considered the 'hull tax' for conversions, which defaults to 90%. The techs would reduce this to 50%, and 10%. With the 'hull' of the pz1 being the basic light tank hull, which has an Ic cost of 1.25. 80% of that would normally be 1 IC, instead of the 0.8 Ic we actually see in the game, but that is made up for by the ribeted (That was a typo, but I thought it was funny so I left it) armour, which applies an external (to the previous calculation, at least) multiplier of 0.8, and we arrive at the final cost reduction of 0.8.

Of the remaining 3.3 Ic cost, 0.1 is what remains of the hull tax, while the 3.2 is the conversion cost of 4.0 IC for converting the HMG into a CSG, with the 20% reduction.

Nice!

I will run a more thorough test later and look at that part of the interface to confirm. I assumed the bonus would be for speed rather than a discount, so I have not checked those values. Thanks!

 

[Corpse Fool]

Nice!

I will run a more thorough test later and look at that part of the interface to confirm. I assumed the bonus would be for speed rather than a discount, so I have not checked those values. Thanks!

Yes, the tooltip is misleading in that it does say it is a conversion speed increase of 40%. It used to work that way, when conversion itself worked differently, but this was before NSB and the tank designer was released, and there were some balance problems (2-stage production cost fewer factories and resources), so they decided to change the way conversion works.

It should be noted that I don't have the latest DLC, AAT, which I hear introduced some conversion related bugs. If you do run into the same problem, we can probably narrow the cause down to that DLC.

 

[afb]

Yes, the tooltip is misleading in that it does say it is a conversion speed increase of 40%. It used to work that way, when conversion itself worked differently, but this was before NSB and the tank designer was released, and there were some balance problems (2-stage production cost fewer factories and resources), so they decided to change the way conversion works.

It should be noted that I don't have the latest DLC, AAT, which I hear introduced some conversion related bugs. If you do run into the same problem, we can probably narrow the cause down to that DLC.

OK, I think I understand now. First of all, I think I managed to pollute my data by getting a machine tool tech twice in one of the experiments, which meant that production efficiency rose quicker.

But the other issues are that a) I didn't run with big enough numbers and b) because I converted to a SPART (fixed superstructure, medium howitzer), the effect from the tech was fairly negligable, as it is a flat bonus. You said so above, but I didn't quite grasp the implications as I didn't understand the system with the tax, etc.

Basically it means that the conversion techs are very useful for keeping your stuff up to date. Adding a small module, tuning the engine, etc. goes from being a bit of a hassle to being almost as if you paid for it in the initial production run. But it also means that the tech doesn't help nearly as much if you want to convert your old tanks to SPGs, as the cost for that is pretty high to begin with. The flat bonus just has a smaller impact.

And using it to convert old French stuff to something PzI or PzII based is entirely futile, as the added cost from changing the suspension, etc. means that the upgrade cost ends up being even more expensive than just building something new, even with the flat discount. Not that anyone would be stupid enough to try that!