Enough with the fornication!

[Ares Enyalios]

One again i ended a game that lasted 200 years because i am just annoying that everyone is fornicating and marriage means nothing. I even gave my culture the sacred marriage rites trait, have a pure hearted, loyal souldmate as wife that is chaste and she is betraying my king with another man that has non compatible traits while 2 match with me. That's just out of hand. I am so annoyed by it.
My king has also 5 daughters and 4 of them have bastard sons, two of them are even nuns...
This needs to be toned down and i would love to get a game rule for that. I can't imagine that someone really likes that mess, but at least give us the chance to avoid it...

Update 19.12.22

It seems clear now that the reason is more or less an oversight. There are events that were added by DLCs which don't check if your spouse is loyal, soulmate, chaste etc. which results in spouses beeing unfaithful which absolutly shouldn't be.

There are bugthreads which aren't yet confirmed by Paradox, but the oversight exists.

CK III - Character's Wife with 100 opinion, Friend, Soulmate, and Loyal trait was found to be cheating

Short summary of your issue Character's Wife with 100 opinion, Friend, Soulmate, and Loyal trait was found to be cheating Game Version 1.7.0 What OS are you playing on? Windows What platform are you using? Steam What DLC do you...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

CK III - Character's Wife with 100 opinion, Friend, Soulmate, and Loyal trait was found to be cheating

Short summary of your issue Character's Wife with 100 opinion, Friend, Soulmate, and Loyal trait was found to be cheating Game Version 1.7.0 What OS are you playing on? Windows What platform are you using? Steam What DLC do you...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

I have basically two wishes. One ist to fix the problem by adding the checks to the events and second create the option to tone down the seductions schemes in the game rules. As a quality of life feature.

 

[Opanashc]

You can keep complaining, in hopes that in 6 month, or 6 years, it will.
OR
You can use a mod for it, and enjoy the benefits while you wait for your hope to come through.
You are not the first, not even the tenth person who started a thread on fornication in the game.

 

[WJS]

I mean this question entirely from an introspective point of view.

There was a lot of fornication and adultery in the past. Indeed, there's a lot of it today, perhaps lessened by improved surveillance, women's rights, and the impact muted by birth control.

What, precisely, bothers you so much about it?

 

[Herennius]

F&F has an issue with many events related to that missing sanity checks and overall, character could play more of role...but I don't see how a game rule is needed to completely disallow it (or even worse only forbid it for the AI)

 

[kawamuratc]

Sex is the greatest thing you can experience as human

Hey, hey, hey.

The greatest thing you can experience as a human is watching a tiny kitten stumble around with their pointy little tail straight up in the air. An equal or close second is to work (either real or simulated) in tandem with a working dog (or hunting cat) and feel the joy of being a pair.

 

[Tiax]

I bet more people who belonged too the church were having sex than was ever recorded, hell of a lot more.

Then perhaps the rate at which adultery is revealed is too high.

 

[klopkr]

I think the devs have this weird view of people in the past that they're all somewhat morally grey and could do everything from cheat to murder regardless of traits.

 

[Tiax]

I think the devs have this weird view of people in the past that they're all somewhat morally grey and could do everything from cheat to murder regardless of traits.

It does seem incongruous with the idea that people are described by a bag of three traits. Like even if real people are morally grey, if your game-model of the world is that people have a few core, unchangeable character traits, those traits should probably mean something.

 

[kawamuratc]

I think the devs have this weird view of people in the past that they're all somewhat morally grey and could do everything from cheat to murder regardless of traits.

Nah. It’s simply because of how the AI makes choices.

Not everything is gated behind a trait, nor should it be (people are weird and act weird and rationalize a lot of things). The AI makes a lot of choices based on its personality values, which is probably a lot easier to code for since those numbers are the sums of traits and modifiers and everything else that affects personality.

It’s a pretty neat solution, but there are lots of little oversights that slowly get patched or modded. Just par for the course for a complicated game like this.

 

[Herennius]

Not everything is gated behind a trait, nor should it be (people are weird and act weird and rationalize a lot of things). The AI makes a lot of choices based on its personality values, which is probably a lot easier to code for since those numbers are the sums of traits and modifiers and everything else that affects personality.

I'm not familiar with how exactly the part of the code works which decides if a seduction scheme is considered/started, but I think a part of the problem might be that there are only a few personal schemes at all, so even not particular inclined characters might decide to seduce someone...just because looking for something to do.

 

[Opanashc]

I'm not familiar with how exactly the part of the code works which decides if a seduction scheme is considered/started, but I think a part of the problem might be that there are only a few personal schemes at all, so even not particular inclined characters might decide to seduce someone...just because looking for something to do.

Seduction scheme would not be started, if the target does not pass the "might cheat" trigger. Biggest problem is the number of events that force-create cheaters/fornicators, without checking that trigger at all - and you get your best-friend/soulmate/+100 opinion spouse getting it on with some ugly bastard, whose guts the spouse hates.

 

[Ares Enyalios]

You can keep complaining, in hopes that in 6 month, or 6 years, it will.
OR
You can use a mod for it, and enjoy the benefits while you wait for your hope to come through.
You are not the first, not even the tenth person who started a thread on fornication in the game.

Well i like to play Ironman with achievements on. I don't see a gamerule mod that accepts that...

Seduction scheme would not be started, if the target does not pass the "might cheat" trigger. Biggest problem is the number of events that force-create cheaters/fornicators, without checking that trigger at all - and you get your best-friend/soulmate/+100 opinion spouse getting it on with some ugly bastard, whose guts the spouse hates.

Well, i seems you get that there actually is a problem that needs to be solved.

 

[kawamuratc]

Well i like to play Ironman with achievements on. I don't see a gamerule mod that accepts that...

Well, i seems you get that there actually is a problem that needs to be solved.

Steam Achievement Manager!

Mods do allow for Ironman; I regularly use Ironman even if cheevos are not unlockable for save management purposes as I prefer using PDX-Unlimiter to sort saves.

But SAM let’s you bypass the silly rules about mods, as well as fix bugs.

 

[Tomray94]

There is constant confusion between the existence of a phenomenon and the extent of it. Yes, people had more and varied sexual interactions which often conflicted with the ideals they supposedly championed or their religious or other vows, still, the extent to which it happens in game and the ridiculous situations that occur from it most certainly break any immersion.

 

[WJS]

There is constant confusion between the existence of a phenomenon and the extent of it. Yes, people had more and varied sexual interactions which often conflicted with the ideals they supposedly championed or their religious or other vows, still, the extent to which it happens in game and the ridiculous situations that occur from it most certainly break any immersion.

I would argue that the immersion is broken because of the player's extreme insistence on stopping any adultery that occurs.

We see this with people trying to choose the most chaste wives, in the hope that they become immune to adultery.

However, if the concern is ensuring that the next generation is genetically descended from the previous generation, the answer is obvious: matrilineal succession. That way, you'll be sure that any child of yours is honestly yours.

The question is, how acceptable is this to the players that worry about adultery?

 

[Ares Enyalios]

Except they did. Popes with "nephews", William the Bastard, etc, etc.

William was the child of a concubine in a time concubines were no longer as tolerated by the normmans as before. Also the Popes often had concubine like women. Funny enough, those were faithful. Thing is, while it was totally fine for a man to have a second women that dated exclusivly him, it was not okey for a women to have more than one lover. And exactly that happens. Going for a married women and some one finding it out would have been a death sencence for both adulterers, but in the game i sometimes can arrest them, executing however makes me the bad guy...

 

[MarkFranz]

You can keep complaining, in hopes that in 6 month, or 6 years, it will.
OR
You can use a mod for it, and enjoy the benefits while you wait for your hope to come through.
You are not the first, not even the tenth person who started a thread on fornication in the game.

This OR is make it look like person need to choose one of two. But it's false. You can play with mod that fix the problem, while continue to remind devs of it, until it's finally be fixed in based game, and you have no need to use temporary patch in face of mod.

 

[Emperor 1997]

One again i ended a game that lasted 200 years because i am just annoying that everyone is fornicating and marriage means nothing. I even gave my culture the sacred marriage rites trait, have a pure hearted, loyal souldmate as wife that is chaste and she is betraying my king with another man that has non compatible traits while 2 match with me. That's just out of hand. I am so annoyed by it.
My king has also 5 daughters and 4 of them have bastard sons, two of them are even nuns...
This needs to be toned down and i would love to get a game rule for that. I can't imagine that someone really likes that mess, but at least give us the chance to avoid it...

The most events, who are buggy, are from the DLCs(Royal Court, Friend & Foes, Fates of Iberia), who are missing the "Might Cheat on Partner" trigger and after 8 months after Royal Court release, the Devs have not fix it.

It should be a very simple fix, the only thing they have to do, is to add this trigger to all buggy events.

 

[klopkr]

Nah. It’s simply because of how the AI makes choices.

Not everything is gated behind a trait, nor should it be (people are weird and act weird and rationalize a lot of things). The AI makes a lot of choices based on its personality values, which is probably a lot easier to code for since those numbers are the sums of traits and modifiers and everything else that affects personality.

It’s a pretty neat solution, but there are lots of little oversights that slowly get patched or modded. Just par for the course for a complicated game like this.

Cheating and murder are two things that annoy players and are almost never rationalized easily by people who's entire characteristics are rejecting those factors.

Maybe if there was some kind of "seret trait" or "false trait" system it would make sense but when the game tells me someone is humble, chaste, and compassionate I believe that's actually how that character is not just masquerading while they're secretly a sadistic cheating murderer.

 

[cursorhiker]

Then perhaps the rate at which adultery is revealed is too high.

I do think there needs to be a "rumors of infidelity" trait, which would be easier to reveal (and allowed to be fabricated). It should be pretty hard to reveal an affair that's no longer ongoing, as well.
That way a character could hear there's rumors and either be more discreet, break up entirely, or just disregard them.